Please change taxes...

[Ishmachiah]

Showing the listing price of items on the market is the root of every issue currently that we are seeing. It is simple as limit shown history for sales and do not show listed prices.

I disagree. What we have in FF14 is a Market. Much like in the real world, you venture to the market (store) and pay the merchant for the product you want. You normally do not have an option on what you want to pay for what you want. The listed price is what you pay if you want the product.

Flea Markets and Swap Meets are a different animal as you cannot guarantee the authenticity of the products you buy and once you buy it, no refunds.

[Wazabi]

When you want to buy an item but doesn't know the price, it's a blind bidding. I fail to see how that is a better system. Buyer have to bid with a price, in which the order might or might not be fulfilled. It creates more hassle for the buyer. In a way, that benefits the seller as less information is available to the buyer to make an accurate guess at the price an item. Any savvy economist will tell you that is not conducive to trading in a large market

[Darkwerk]

When you want to buy an item but doesn't know the price, it's a blind bidding. I fail to see how that is a better system. Buyer have to bid with a price, in which the order might or might not be fulfilled. It creates more hassle for the buyer. In a way, that benefits the seller as less information is available to the buyer to make an accurate guess at the price an item. Any savvy economist will tell you that is not conducive to trading in a large market

Depends who you ask..Economics is a conversation one side can rarely sway the other on. What blind bidding actually does in an MMO game however is this. It keeps prices from spiking very much when supply is steady. it also can cause massive price jumps if supply is non existent,while if we see a glut the bottom will fall out.

It protects the seller from rampant undercuts,while also forcing them to list at decent price as they can not bump the market near as easy. {snip}

[Darkwerk]

{continued}

Every time a buyer steps up to the MB he then has the chance to either push the market price up or down simply by intelligent bidding. Even if a seller dominates the recent history with over priced sales if only takes one decent seller, or a smart buyer 1 item and a friend to correct the market.


We are not living a life, we are playing a game. The markets in MMO games that reflect that have always been both more rewarding and entertaining .

[Rrylia]

I agree, I found the FFXI system frustrating in ways that were significant. It annoyed me that to get the best deal, and buy at the lowest price, I had to judge what I thought the cheapest undercutter would list at and bid upwards in small increments. Too much time spamming the market board for my liking and less time playing. I did make a judgement call on which ones it was worth bothering on - but stuff like Shihei, Squid sushi+1 etc it makes a big difference over time to pay the lowest price. As an addicted crafter it was especially true for crafting and especially with the number of sub components some items needed. This was even more so the case when crafting for profit in bulk. {No thanks} in FFXIV in my opinion.

[Zigkid3]

Depends who you ask..Economics is a conversation one side can rarely sway the other on. What blind bidding actually does in an MMO game however is this. It keeps prices from spiking very much when supply is steady. it also can cause massive price jumps if supply is non existent,while if we see a glut the bottom will fall out.

It protects the seller from rampant undercuts,while also forcing them to list at decent price as they can not bump the market near as easy. {snip}

What happens is you prevent people from gaining any insightful information about the current market. Blind bidding will cause the market to lose transparency. Blind bidding would make price fluctuation far worse. All you did was hide the prices under the rug so no one can see it, and this will cause the market to be less efficient and have bigger and more frequent price gaps.

[Xystic]

Tax sellers the moment they put an item up for sale, then they'll be much less willing to adjust their price

In the current model, you have the chance to make some money at no loss to fees.

Placing an initial listing fee - prevents RELISTING of an item. It does not prevent/deter INITIAL UNDERCUTTING in any way. People will undercut you REGARDLESS. You add initial listing fees in with the mess, you now have your item stuck on the market board at a price it can't sell and a penalty fee for RELISTING.

The only people who benefit from initial listing fees are the ones with a huge stock of items. We can use a small quantity to undercut you to the point where if you relist, your item will sell below the market value and you face a penalty for relisting.

Its either:
A) You sit and wait to hope I leave or sell all my goods which will rarely happen
B) You take a loss but at least recover some gil and leave the current market

[Zigkid3]

Not to mention people could then actually list stuff for cheaper by abusing the proposed system of taxing on listing. What's to stop someone from putting something up for 10gil to avoid taxes and then adjust the price quickly to what they actually want. congrats, now everyone in the game will be using this for tax evasion! So if people want a listing fee, inevitably they'll also be forced to add a price adjustment fee as well.

[Wazabi]

Depends who you ask..Economics is a conversation one side can rarely sway the other on. What blind bidding actually does in an MMO game however is this. It keeps prices from spiking very much when supply is steady. it also can cause massive price jumps if supply is non existent,while if we see a glut the bottom will fall out.

It protects the seller from rampant undercuts,while also forcing them to list at decent price as they can not bump the market near as easy. {snip}

Most arguements between economist stems from different assumptions. Hayek and Keynes basically took it head on, but both were right in their own way. For the most part, economist are in agreement with regards to the fundamental mechanics of a market. The ones in disagreement mostly occurs between a person who really knows economics, with another that thinks he knows economics. I have my disagreement with Zigkid...but you don't see us banging our head against eachother trying to defend a flawed/misguided theory. Lets just say our disagreement is very different from how most will perceive or understand it.

You're right in that blind auction reduces spikes. But do you truely understand what causes that? Also, it kinda depends on are you looking at it when the market is matured, or when it is only a few months old.

Generally, asynchronous information benefits the seller more than the buyer. Blind bidding sets the stage exactly for that (which is why big corporation and government uses that for their projects). This results in buyer needing to spend more time and efford to get more information, exactly what Rylia's gripe is about. Given that, we can expect the buyer to either get the shorter end of the straw, or trades less. This translates to less market participants, which explains why prices fluctuates less. Even then it depends....this applies to a matured market, but not neccesarily a new market where prices are still adjusting to equilibrium. As you've put it, we're playing a game, not living a life. Players might not want to spend so much efford just to dig up information about an item before purchasing them.

That being said, people who plays game are real living people...so when a game mechanics involves human behaviour, it is as real life as it could be.

You mentioned protecting the seller from being undercut. Why would we need to protect against that? If he's being undercut, that simply means he's either greedy and overpriced his goods, or that he can't find a more efficient means of getting that goods to sell it at a lower price. Who's protecting the buyer then? FF11's market has everything against the buyer...most just lacks the understanding to realize it.

[Darkwerk]

I am not sure if you understand how you come off,as most intellectuals do not.Im am sure you are proud of the first 2 years of college you have completed. You may want to roll back the talking down to people and the assumptions that you are better read . I back some of the same positions you do,however on this i disagree from experience in many many GAME markets. I would not hold the same positions if real life were at stake here. In general a game should be fun and needs a sense of win/loss ,every aspect of the game possible should reflect this .

It has not been my experience that a blind bid system would work out as you assert that it would. People do not act the same in games as the would with real money. They will blow more for lesser items faster,they will push a market price up and up because they just bought a ton of gil from random RMT. They will under cut further than it is sane simply because the lack basic math skill or to many beer's dulled their logic. (snip..limit}