Battle Reform Blueprint

[Physic]

This is an issue that many players find annoying.

The animation lock that players experience does a lot to inhibit smooth and dynamic gameplay. It hurts the design objectives of making active positioning an important part of battle.

Having your player get stuck in place does nothing to positively promote the areas of strategy, adaptive positioning, and fluidity.

it did help strategy, and adaptive positioning,

strategy is about ascessing the cost and benefit of actions, and coming up with a plan that will make the best use of them,

youre supposed to decide when you cast a spell, i get X damage or effect, but i have to position myself so that i wont get hit for X seconds.

With attacks, you are commiting to the attack, and losing some of your manueverability. Its the same thing in real life, the strength of attacks is coming mostly from momentum from your body, it is difficult to get a powerful attack while you are retreating. you also are more likely to take heavy damage while in the middle of an attack, because it leaves you open. It was an interesting mechanic, somewhat muddled by the ability to cue skills, (which most people did by accident) and slow server response times.

But in an auto attack world it would go from strategic choices to just you will be rooted, which is a bad idea. I wonder if Weaponskills will root you, probably only auto attack will be completely free, similar to ffxi. Casting i think people want too much, many games root you completely for casting, this one only stops you on initial cast, and on execution, without having to use any skills, i think that a big step up.

[Reika]

I understand not being able to move 'while' casting a spell, since this is the only MMO i've played where you can run around while a spell is being cast and it doesn't get interrupted. Ive no problem with that, however the animations that stop you when you start and start casting are very annoying. at least the animation after finishing a cast shouldn't lock you in place, and you should be able to move while that animation is in motion.

[Teknoman]

Well auto-attack mode doesnt automatically mean you have to stay in the same spot the whole time, or will move as slow as XI when auto attacking. I can see an AA mode where you can move at a decent speed while attacking, in order to eventually take advantage of hitting an enemy from different sides...or to keep the "action skill" dodging mechanic in play.

Really looking forward to whatever videos they have to show, since the director says its supposed to be different from the way XI's battle system worked, and rightfully so.

[Physic]

I understand not being able to move 'while' casting a spell, since this is the only MMO i've played where you can run around while a spell is being cast and it doesn't get interrupted. Ive no problem with that, however the animations that stop you when you start and start casting are very annoying. at least the animation after finishing a cast shouldn't lock you in place, and you should be able to move while that animation is in motion.

even though it stops you twice, its still way more movement, i think the idea is to prevent just safe running all the time, casting is going to stop you at least twice, thats better than being rooted fro the whole cast i think, especially for long casts. If i had to take one out, it would be the initial casting, the second one makes a lot of sense, that you d have to pause when you unleash

[Rentahamster]

it did help strategy, and adaptive positioning,

strategy is about ascessing the cost and benefit of actions, and coming up with a plan that will make the best use of them,

youre supposed to decide when you cast a spell, i get X damage or effect, but i have to position myself so that i wont get hit for X seconds.

With attacks, you are commiting to the attack, and losing some of your manueverability. Its the same thing in real life, the strength of attacks is coming mostly from momentum from your body, it is difficult to get a powerful attack while you are retreating. you also are more likely to take heavy damage while in the middle of an attack, because it leaves you open. It was an interesting mechanic, somewhat muddled by the ability to cue skills, (which most people did by accident) and slow server response times.

That might be nice in real life, but this is a video game. Even in the context of a video game, it might sound good on paper, but think about it - has this actually contributed to better gameplay? I can only think of negative examples.

Example:

I'm tanking Dodore. One of the strategies to tank Dodore is to run away whenever he powers up to do "Tail Whip" so that I don't get all my skills disabled.

If I am unlucky enough to do a skill at the exact same time Dodore decides to use Tail Whip, I'm stuck in place and can't move to avoid it. Don't tell me, "don't spam". I'm not.
It's all up to luck. If I'm unlucky enough that I activate a skill at the same time as Dodore uses Tail Whip, I can't do anything about it to save myself.


Do you have any examples of where being stuck in place due to skill animation contributed positively to battle strategy?


(by the way, I'm only talking about skills, not spells. I think that spells should have to be cast in a stationary position, given that mages are not supposed to be an "in your face" class")

[TheVedis]

That might be nice in real life, but this is a video game. Even in the context of a video game, it might sound good on paper, but think about it - has this actually contributed to better gameplay? I can only think of negative examples.

Example:

I'm tanking Dodore. One of the strategies to tank Dodore is to run away whenever he powers up to do "Tail Whip" so that I don't get all my skills disabled.

If I am unlucky enough to do a skill at the exact same time Dodore decides to use Tail Whip, I'm stuck in place and can't move to avoid it. Don't tell me, "don't spam". I'm not.
It's all up to luck. If I'm unlucky enough that I activate a skill at the same time as Dodore uses Tail Whip, I can't do anything about it to save myself.


Do you have any examples of where being stuck in place due to skill animation contributed positively to battle strategy?


(by the way, I'm only talking about skills, not spells. I think that spells should have to be cast in a stationary position, given that mages are not supposed to be an "in your face" class")

skills, yes, i can understand pausing to use them
the animations themselves show you "powering them up" which indicates you should stop for a moment to do them

your basic attack would be the only thing i think you shouldnt have to stop for(unless your an archer)

[Rentahamster]

skills, yes, i can understand pausing to use them
the animations themselves show you "powering them up" which indicates you should stop for a moment to do them

But why? Just ask yourself:

"Does forcing my character to be subject to animation-lock contribute to battle depth and the formation of strategy, or place a needed restriction that encourages smart gameplay?"

If yes, then keep it.

If no, then ditch it.

When I ask myself that question, the answer is "no".

[TheVedis]

But why? Just ask yourself:

"Does forcing my character to be subject to animation-lock contribute to battle depth and the formation of strategy, or place a needed restriction that encourages smart gameplay?"

If yes, then keep it.

If no, then ditch it.

When I ask myself that question, the answer is "no".

the obvious answer for any player who wants to be able to avoid certain attacks, or do what he wants, is "get rid of it, its not helping us"

but thats also the entire point, not every aspect should be helpful
we should have some hinderences, using an ability, yes you should pause for that brief moment to use it, to power it up, its part of the point of doing it

not everything should be instant/seemless, its not just an on off switch you think about and its there, you have to do something to use it, which is the animation/pause
and we are talking a fraction of a second to do this

now granted, maybe a better solution, is to actualy have mobs who are using deathblow type moves give some sort of more advanced warning they are about to do it, so that people arent using an ability right as the mob uses theirs with no warning and cant get out of it....

[Physic]

That might be nice in real life, but this is a video game. Even in the context of a video game, it might sound good on paper, but think about it - has this actually contributed to better gameplay? I can only think of negative examples.

Example:

I'm tanking Dodore. One of the strategies to tank Dodore is to run away whenever he powers up to do "Tail Whip" so that I don't get all my skills disabled.

If I am unlucky enough to do a skill at the exact same time Dodore decides to use Tail Whip, I'm stuck in place and can't move to avoid it. Don't tell me, "don't spam". I'm not.
It's all up to luck. If I'm unlucky enough that I activate a skill at the same time as Dodore uses Tail Whip, I can't do anything about it to save myself.


Do you have any examples of where being stuck in place due to skill animation contributed positively to battle strategy?


(by the way, I'm only talking about skills, not spells. I think that spells should have to be cast in a stationary position, given that mages are not supposed to be an "in your face" class")

basically that was part of the skill of choosing what you were doing, one of the prices that glad pays is the fact that since they have so many skills they have to maintain, they were more likely to be unable to move when it matters, pug on the other hand does not need to guard, so they can run more. Its the difference in advantage between reactive play, and having really good rotations, being reactive allows you to actually react. choosing a strong tank style of play forces you to be slow, like a tank.

For example, with puglist, when im tanking i basically use light strike, and pummel for tp/keeping defense up, i only strike when i think its safe, which is usually right after an attack, if you only commit to one action peridocially you are less likely to be stuck in an animation when somethig bad happens, since the game is was stamina based, you were losing nothing for choosing not to attack when you thought it was risky.

Glad is a tank, they get more defense but pay for it in stamina, and being more rooted by actions. They are constantly spamming skills because that is thier play style, they are trading movement and adaptability for an over all superior defense.
Pug is about movement, they can wait and react to the monster, most of thier defense comes from innate skills like high evasion and a really high parry, they have a relatively quick attack that gives them a buff, and quick debuffs that debilitate accuracy.

Basically its not unlucky, you chose every attack in the old system, you chose when to do something, unless your class needed to constantly use skills as soon as they came up, which means they designed the class to have less choice in movement. Thats the price you pay for using guard and spamming skills as a playstyle, its a tradeoff, tradeoffs are what strategic descions are based off of.

[Physic]

the obvious answer for any player who wants to be able to avoid certain attacks, or do what he wants, is "get rid of it, its not helping us"

but thats also the entire point, not every aspect should be helpful
we should have some hinderences, using an ability, yes you should pause for that brief moment to use it, to power it up, its part of the point of doing it

not everything should be instant/seemless, its not just an on off switch you think about and its there, you have to do something to use it, which is the animation/pause
and we are talking a fraction of a second to do this

now granted, maybe a better solution, is to actualy have mobs who are using deathblow type moves give some sort of more advanced warning they are about to do it, so that people arent using an ability right as the mob uses theirs with no warning and cant get out of it....

they do give a warning, they start charging, and get big red lines coming from them and it says readies. Different tp attacks take different time to charge, some are avoidable, some are not, some are avoidable if your are attacking from a range, this is one advantage lancer has, they can attack from a range more safely because they are farther, and are more likely to be able to move out of range in the time. As a pug being close i have to really be paying attention to dodge tail chase, where a lancer only needs to take like a single step.

It made sense before. now with auto attack and no stamina it probably wont any more.