Why is there still so much to do at end game?

[BobtheBlackMage]

SO ANGRY!!!

Have you ever played an MMO before? Have you ever played an MMO from launch before?

This is doing pretty good. We clearly need more content, but they'll never be able to produce as fast as people clear. The two new hardmodes, primal, dungeon, and raid will be on farm for most "hardcore" one-to-three-class players like you within a week or three. Hell, according to your lodestone, you are missing out on two fully separate methods of play, crafting and gathering. There IS a reason those classes have specific artifact gear and weapons. And keep in mind, this is an MMO, it has a huge social aspect. I don't just enjoy MY progression, I enjoy seeing FC and LS members move forward too.

The vanity system is coming. The barber is coming. More instances are coming. EXTREME mode Primals are coming. PvP is coming. Crystal Tower is coming (If you ever played FFIII, this is a Big Deal.) Please look forward to it!

[Blarp]

it's about what you make it about, would be my guess. what are the single player games about? is all you remember from VII the last fight, or is it maaaaybe more that quite emotional scene somewhere in the middle? do you remember the gold saucer? did you have fun running around for hours trying to find a way to raise a golden chocobo? did you spend hours getting the right materia?
I sure did.

It's about the same thing every RPG is about; character development, storyline, and exploration. In an MMO, exploration and storyline are finite and they have the unfortunate tendency to end which leaves you paying a monthly fee for character progression and socialization. Once you are done with initial vertical progression (leveling) you are left to develop your character in other ways. The way that is accomplished in MMO's is to make gear with bigger stats which you acquire via killing bosses in raids. So, when a poster claims that an MMO of this type is a special snowflake and that endgame isn't about raiding, I have to ask what it is about. It can't be about what you make of it (at endgame) because the developers have designed the game in such a way that there are a very limited number of ways to progress your character at endgame. This isn't unique to FFXIV, but it's foolish to try and pretend that this game is about anything other than raiding at endgame because there is very little to do otherwise.

[Kosmos992k]

Please enlighten us what the game is about then.

It's about everything you can do in Eorzea, it's about fishing, it's about crafting, gathering , playing with other classes/jobs, making a company house, building a Free Company, helping friends, finding stuff you didn't find before, crafting the best possible gear, making new friends, playing with old friends, random acts of kindness such as raising someone you find laying on the ground as others rush past, making a new player an HQ set of armor, just because you can, furnishing your company house, hanging with friends, chocobo farming (if and when it arrives), collecting all the best armor pieces (yes, be a completionist you JRPG fans), etc...

You see to me, you and players like you seem awfully limited in your horizons, all you see is end-game raiding, nothing else. Frankly I find the whole mindset of the end-game raiders I have run into in-game to be pretty annoying. Min/max, efficiency, speed run, gear check, must have experience, relic +1 or go home, etc... There are a ton of words that can be used to describe those attitudes, but that's not the point, the point is that the laser like narrow focus on raiding leaves almost no room to enjoy yourself in this game. No mater how much end-game content is added at each patch, you've all proven that you will complete it in record time, analyze the new content, grind out the best gear set, and speed run it with ruthless efficiency until all the joy and pleasure has been squeezed out of it by the speed run grind.

Then there will be another cycle of whining that you're bored, the game is too easy, and there is nothing to do, followed by the usual threats to leave. Someone like me will post as I have done and someone like you will ask what the game is about if not raiding, and so the cycle will perpetuate itself.

[Uriahnool]

How are you only just up to doing this. I have 3 character in Full DL gear , Relic +1 , cleared Hard mode. Doing all that stuff is you mentioned is childs play People cleared all that within the first 2 weeks on multiple characters
Coil is the only real end game . Clearly you are not a hardcore player and have no idea about how bad this game is

Mostly because when I find something is boring, I move on to something else. Yeah, I can spend my four hours tonight repeating AK and collecting tomes which is very dull OR I could RP with some people, get some crafting going so I can have money, work on my relic weapon, get my archer past level 30, or go do some FATE battles for GC seals. I don't like grinding the same things over and over. Just because it is possible to get the full DL set in three full days of non-stop repeats of the same dungeon over and over doesn't mean I want to.

[Uriahnool]

Pretty much this. People defending the game in its current state don't realize they are hurting it in the long run more then helping it.

I'm not saying the game is perfect and there is still a lot that is unfinished and more that should and will be added. However it irks me when people rush to the end, do all the content, and then demand more. It's like a little spoiled kid on Christmas opening all his very nice presents and then mad at mom and dad because there are not more gifts. Why not enjoy and play with the toys you already have for a while, kid?

[BobtheBlackMage]

It's about everything you can do in Eorzea, it's about fishing, it's about crafting, gathering , playing with other classes/jobs, making a company house, building a Free Company, helping friends, finding stuff you didn't find before, crafting the best possible gear, making new friends, playing with old friends, random acts of kindness such as raising someone you find laying on the ground as others rush past, making a new player an HQ set of armor, just because you can, furnishing your company house, hanging with friends, chocobo farming (if and when it arrives), collecting all the best armor pieces (yes, be a completionist you JRPG fans), etc...

You see to me, you and players like you seem awfully limited in your horizons, all you see is end-game raiding, nothing else. Frankly I find the whole mindset of the end-game raiders I have run into in-game to be pretty annoying. Min/max, efficiency, speed run, gear check, must have experience, relic +1 or go home, etc... There are a ton of words that can be used to describe those attitudes, but that's not the point, the point is that the laser like narrow focus on raiding leaves almost no room to enjoy yourself in this game. No mater how much end-game content is added at each patch, you've all proven that you will complete it in record time, analyze the new content, grind out the best gear set, and speed run it with ruthless efficiency until all the joy and pleasure has been squeezed out of it by the speed run grind.

Then there will be another cycle of whining that you're bored, the game is too easy, and there is nothing to do, followed by the usual threats to leave. Someone like me will post as I have done and someone like you will ask what the game is about if not raiding, and so the cycle will perpetuate itself.

I can't like this hard enough.

Raiding is not the only end-game.

[Doo]

Why not enjoy and play with the toys you already have for a while, kid?

If most players have your mentality, mmos would never go f2p or die even.

[Yashnaheen]

I still have a lot left to do. Though once you get +1 and Full DL on your 'main' job the game does start to get a bit stale. I get to buy a new Myth piece next monday, then hope in the next two T1s I clear I get a drop so I'm not stuck in a lvl 60 head piece for who knows how long. Or I could shell out half a mil for a slightly better than 60 HQ vanya. Not spending another half mil to meld a temp piece.

And that is pretty much it. Grinding myth and random other things easily gear my off jobs in DL,

I enjoy crafting and gathering, but for those who don't I can see how the game is now log in 1 or 2 x a week to cap then play something else.

[Altena]

People need to really stop believing that those that have completed turn 4 in coil "rushed through content" because that is simply not true.
As I have stated before, if you still don't have a level 50 class, 3 months after release then you are not considered part of the "norm".

In addition to this, people also need to stop claiming that leveling sub classes or crafting and gathering classes is part of end game content. As this is not the complaint. The complaint is not that there is absolutely nothing that we can do, the complaint is that there is a severe lack of end game content.

This thread refers to end game content.
I will list again:
- WP / AK
- Relic quest (which includes primals)
- Coil


That is it. Literally all there is to do for someone who has truly reached end game.
You haven't reached this point yet? Good for you.
You haven't completed all of this yet? Good for you.

This complaint is NOT for you, as you do indeed still have things to do.
However for the rest of us that have facerolled through the content at a normal pace, there is very little end game content we are left with. With the upcoming patch of 2.1, many of us will still have very little do actually progress our character, as the gear is a whole tier behind what we already have been working toward for the past 3 months.

I am not "hardcore". I am not "casual"... I simply play this game. Like anyone else.
There is little end game content for me to do, over and above a 40min raid, and spamming the same 2 dungeons 4-10 times per week.
This complaint does not apply to you? Then once again - good for you.

[amnie]

It's about the same thing every RPG is about; character development, storyline, and exploration. In an MMO, exploration and storyline are finite and they have the unfortunate tendency to end which leaves you paying a monthly fee for character progression and socialization. Once you are done with initial vertical progression (leveling) you are left to develop your character in other ways. The way that is accomplished in MMO's is to make gear with bigger stats which you acquire via killing bosses in raids. So, when a poster claims that an MMO of this type is a special snowflake and that endgame isn't about raiding, I have to ask what it is about. It can't be about what you make of it (at endgame) because the developers have designed the game in such a way that there are a very limited number of ways to progress your character at endgame. This isn't unique to FFXIV, but it's foolish to try and pretend that this game is about anything other than raiding at endgame because there is very little to do otherwise.

please do me a favour and don't assume this is the first MMO I'm playing - or the first time I'm discussing this. it's been happening for the last 10 years now and frankly it's about as tiresome as grinding the same dungeon over and over and over and over. (which is why I engage in other online activity besides arguing about stupid things)

again... there is little YOU LIKE. that doesn't mean there is little. just because YOU definte 'endgame' as 'horizontal gear progression' doesn't mean that is what everyone's end goal is.

btw: I'm a heavy raider. I enjoy raiding immensely.

however, I am also a dedicated crafter, a gear hoarder, a pet collector, an achievement hunter, an explorer, a helper, a derper, a goofer, a chatter, a dancer, an emote-spammer, an alt-o-holic, a spreadsheet creator, an AH-analyser, an 'usual group settings' experimenter, a reputation farmer...