Why the netcode issue exists, and why it cannot be fixed.

[Kaethra]

The OP makes a good point, but its not all doom and gloom and wouldn't take millions to fix. What could be done is a hybridization of the two systems. The server will check your movements over a larger area and let the client select where it is on a smaller scale. This is how other MMOs actually do it. If you ever played WoW, you'll notice that some people who are lagging are teleporting a bit in a predictable pattern or chunks. They kinda stay sill then move and repeat.

Althea's suggestion on pg 10 is also a simple way to fix the issue. Let the clients tell the server they exited or re-entered the AOE. Yes it will make it easier to hack to be immune to AOE, but the impact is alot less than the overworld mining teleports already in effect.

[Astarica]

It's because the fix is easy (have client handle it) is why this problem is extremely hard. The problem didn't come due to lack of understanding of how fundamental MMORPG concepts work. It's because someone up there chose to go against the norm and until that guy changes his mind you can't possibly fix it. It's not like someone just facerolled and accidentally produced this server-based code that is nothing like any other MMORPG. It's obviously very deliberate which is why it is very difficult to convince the guy who thought this is a good idea to change it.

[Dyrstahl]

Just curious: how was FF11s netcode? Is it similar to other mmorpgs or FF14?

[viion]

The reasons why SE would choose server dictated live-state:
-Prevents desync bugs (on the server)
-Prevents countless potential duping bugs
-Prevents (in theory) teleportation and other unauthorized client commands from being accepted

Unfortunately not a single one of these have been prevented.

There are lots of desync bugs, hence the issue.
There have been a couple duping bugs and even worse than that... as the game is extremely hackable
lol Teleport, look at all the mining bots.

[Blarp]

Just curious: how was FF11s netcode? Is it similar to other mmorpgs or FF14?

It was equally terrible, but the gameplay was so slow, you could play with like 500ms and never notice.

[darzok]

There has to be some thing done soon many people i know have or are quiting when subs run out due to not been able to enjoy it due to this delay.

Avoid it player is happy server kills you any way not going to make people mad at all and quit.

[Diraco]

It was equally terrible, but the gameplay was so slow, you could play with like 500ms and never notice.

Playing white mage on 11, even with 80% fastcast, I don't remember frequently seeing a cure land on a dead player -- the server cancels the spell before it completes if the target dies while casting (even if the spell takes less than ~100ms to cast). It seemed that any amount cured showed on the client did accurately reflect the server's state. Really the only questionable syncrhonization issue I've seen is something that SE ninja-patched in a few years ago involving zoning: previously a warp or zone change would be successful even if you died slightly before the warp resolves, and you'd end up dead at your destination. Now if you die even while warp takes effect, it's canceled.

[HoroBoro]

I hate to dig on a group trying to make a living but...

The server guys can't even get the "Server Live-State" correctly because the client can, apparently, still send whatever commands it wants to the server and have it implemented (Teleport, Item Conversion, Level up, system queries, packet intercepts, etc).

So basically we are getting all the drawbacks without any of the benefits. Year/months to change the code? Millions? What is the code right now? I bet it was outsourced. I can't image that the people who coded and worked on such a great game coded the servers to allow such blatant vulnerabilities. I'm not even talking about the art.

The game mechanics are smooth and polished to almost OCD status. Do you believe the same group who changed Scholar pet control mechanics (that you can't issue commands when casting) is the same group who does the netcode? Those guys give a shit. I mean, come on. Can't issue pet commands while casting? How minor is that?

The server guys so far, just deal with problems as they come up. Slowly. Without any planing. And many emergency maintenance.

Also I'm not sure how they made the decision, but server side architecture, how they've implemented it, is just really really bad. You trust and verify. That's the golden rule. Do it any other way and you're going to have a bad time. Right now, how I see it, they don't trust, and don't verify.

[Astarica]

Even in a server based game somethings have to be done by the client. The client always issues teleport commands to the server because pathing is a very difficult problem for the computer to figure out. Instead the client just sends a position update with timestamp, and the server treats your movement as teleport. Therefore it is easy to have teleport hacks since all you're changing is how much you've moved.

At any rate usually the most common 'hacks' are really exploits. That is, doing stuff that is legally acceptable in the game in an unintended way. It's very difficult to hack your client to say "I have no GCD", but perhaps you can find a tricky combination of abilities that somehow reset your GCD. It's hard to say "I have Godmode", but perhaps you can find a clever way to stack certain buffs/items to have 100% chance avoidance which is usually good enough. Exploits cannot be stopped architecture design, because what you're doing is allowed by the game.

[Blarp]

At any rate usually the most common 'hacks' are really exploits. That is, doing stuff that is legally acceptable in the game in an unintended way. It's very difficult to hack your client to say "I have no GCD", but perhaps you can find a tricky combination of abilities that somehow reset your GCD. It's hard to say "I have Godmode", but perhaps you can find a clever way to stack certain buffs/items to have 100% chance avoidance which is usually good enough. Exploits cannot be stopped architecture design, because what you're doing is allowed by the game.

How do hackers steal gil when an online player goes near a market board? I've never heard of anything so crazy even in the dime-a-dozen Korean F2P MMO's. There's some pretty serious issues/vulnerabilities with this game. There's days I think SE took the 10 years of accumulated knowledge and experience they have in this genre and flushed it down the toilet before they set out to make this game.