Why the netcode issue exists, and why it cannot be fixed.

[kukurumei]

I don't know a lot about network things and whatnot, but I do know that places like Korea and Japan have internet that is leaps and bounds above anything available in the US. To me, a great deal of this problem reeks of SE's inability to see beyond the borders of Japan, for the same reason they gave the entire western hemisphere the same number of servers (in a single datacenter) as one island nation.

It simply never once crossed their mind that what works in Japan wouldn't work for the rest of the world.

Sorta sorta, there are very fast connections in japan, there are very slow connections, and there are connections that don't even work for 20% of the year (islands for example shut down on bad weathers).

No different then NA, if not a bit better.

I ping the NA datacenter at 35ms, and I still get stupidly bad titan run lags. Their netcode is subpar, their hardware is probably subpar, and their own estimates were probably subpar.

It's never clear cut issue except the fact that everything needs to be upto 2013 standards. Things like this is expected to be solved, because they have been solved(or mitigated to an extent).

Ever heard of GGPO, one hobby programer show the big corporations, how backwater in their thinking they were, fast forward half a decade, netcode has substantially been improved because one person did the obvious, "use their brains".

[Steeled]

The glaring problem really is that these aren't even up to 2010 standards. Seriously, decade old games have adapted better than this.

I grow tired of all the people growing super defensive about this, there's nothing to defend. More often than not, the people that defend it are buying the company line, literally.

[Sinth]

The glaring problem really is that these aren't even up to 2010 standards. Seriously, decade old games have adapted better than this.

I grow tired of all the people growing super defensive about this, there's nothing to defend. More often than not, the people that defend it are buying the company line, literally.

The problem is that the game is coded to future standards that our current network infrastructure is not yet (obviously) capable of handling in order to provide a good experience. The server running the show is the way of the future. I expect to see many more games which run the majority of their code executions in a server live-state environment to arrive in the next 5-10 years. However, SE may have been a bit too ambitious in their efforts to lead with this technology given today's typical networking speeds.

[kukurumei]

The problem is that the game is coded to future standards that our current network infrastructure is not yet (obviously) capable of handling in order to provide a good experience. The server running the show is the way of the future. I expect to see many more games which run the majority of their code executions in a server live-state environment to arrive in the next 5-10 years. However, SE may have been a bit too ambitious in their efforts to lead with this technology given today's typical networking speeds.

Then how do you explain the complete lack of predictive coding both on the client side and the server side, that has predominated the better half of post Y2K online gaming.

Or the backward failsafes for sticking with TCP, that has lead to massive ISP p2p toggling flags.

Or the FF11 like animation sync problems with network congestion instead of rollback syncing

Or how well stupidly bad it is in comparison to many MMOs that run with less hardware, less intrusions, and generally better all around "brain power".

It's not 5-10yrs ahead, that's pure BS. It's just inferior coding and planning.

Just like 2013 computers are far more energy efficient while being more powerful and perform better optimzation then 2000 era models. There is never a time that "well in the future we can brute force it".

No there is never a future that will brute force it. That's not engineering.

This isn't even about SE or FF14 anymore, this is about pure technology and theory. There's no white knighting here.

[Steeled]

The problem is that the game is coded to future standards that our current network infrastructure is not yet (obviously) capable of handling.

A.) Programming for what customers could have in the future, while not adequately meeting the demands of now is terrible.

Some of the red latency issues cannot be chalked up to networking speeds. Issues where a viewer is at 6 o'clock, landslide targets someone standing at 3, they run across the platform to 7 or 8 and still get knocked off.

B.) Things are known about the programming that can't really be discussed here. Suffice it to say, this is not the programming of the future, or even of the past of most AAA titles, aside from XI.

Aside from the dancing, wow's combat model is similar and handles so much better, less sluggishly.

TERA's combat model is similar and handles the dancing much better.

[kukurumei]

TERA's combat model is similar and handles the dancing much better.

TERA is special because it cheats. Theoretically it's easy to hack tera due to these cheating, but the korean programers seems to have some nice correction failsafes in place to make it hard to get away with it.

Just like ARR theoretically is harder to hack, but have been plagued with hacks from day 1.

Tera actually has netcode much like a dungeon crawler. It's very elegant from what we know of it. But that's why a lot of f2p instance MMOs run so darn well.

[Illya]

TERA is special because it cheats. Theoretically it's easy to hack tera due to these cheating, but the korean programers seems to have some nice correction failsafes in place to make it hard to get away with it.

Just like ARR theoretically is harder to hack, but have been plagued with hacks from day 1.

Tera actually has netcode much like a dungeon crawler. It's very elegant from what we know of it. But that's why a lot of f2p instance MMOs run so darn well.

Tera runs on Unreal Engine, which has netcode optimized for online FPS where your latency is critical to everything you do, and also where cheating and hacking are really obvious and can be a problem if allowed to occur unchecked. They started with better netcode than FFXIV finished with when you realize that Epic Games has been coding their network engines since the original Unreal Tournament in 1999. They have nearly 15 years of experience with netcode, and it shows in all games which use UE3 like Tera.

[Astarica]

The client-based MMORPG architecture is essentially solved. If you're paranoid about security you can always be like Blizzard and run the Warden to spy on your users. Until we've discovered a way to transmit information faster than the speed of light, there's no reason to do it in a server-based mode. Even at light speed + infinitely fast server/client you'd expect a game like WoW to have same issues as FF14 about 3% of the time (0.01s lag versus 0.3s lag) if it ran on the same model, and nobody would consider WoW's PvP as acceptable if an ability like Ice Block failed with 3% the frequency compared to say Hallowed Ground failing in FF14 (which can be quite often). Note that here failure means you used the ability, and was charged the CD, but it did not activate.

[Djeserit]

Even at light speed + infinitely fast server/client you'd expect a game like WoW to have same issues as FF14 about 3% of the time (0.01s lag versus 0.3s lag) if it ran on the same model, and nobody would consider WoW's PvP as acceptable if an ability like Ice Block failed with 3% the frequency compared to say Hallowed Ground failing in FF14 (which can be quite often). Note that here failure means you used the ability, and was charged the CD, but it did not activate.

Vinyl records have been out of date for a while now, might want to consider upgrading to new technology. You'll repeat the same argument over and over again much less when you make the switch to CDs!

[Pikachew]

Even at light speed + infinitely fast server/client you'd expect a game like WoW to have same issues as FF14 about 3% of the time (0.01s lag versus 0.3s lag) if it ran on the same model, and nobody would consider WoW's PvP as acceptable if an ability like Ice Block failed with 3% the frequency compared to say Hallowed Ground failing in FF14 (which can be quite often). Note that here failure means you used the ability, and was charged the CD, but it did not activate.

People need to stop using Hallowed Ground as an example. The skill doesn't fail because of the .3 second lag it fails because it has a casting animation. Which is very much warranted considering how good the ability is.