Why the netcode issue exists, and why it cannot be fixed.

[Naunet]

Awesome post, OP. I feel like I have a much better understanding of the situation now, so thanks. However, this really bothers me:

-Server infrastructure is more costly (servers must do much more data processing)

Strange that Squeenix would be so fastidious about cost in pretty much every other area but this. :/ I don't really know anything useful about server stuff, but would the added processing from having to do everything server-side mean that the servers themselves also have less capacity to process players and such (perhaps why the servers get overloaded so easily)? I could just be pulling stuff out of my ass, but it makes me kind of boggle at why they'd choose to do it this way. Especially when I'm pretty sure the client live-state is the standard system for other MMOs.

[Eclair_Xysha]

And on top of that, ps3 users like me.... oh boy.

[Astarica]

For the 'Esuna test', I've finished casting mount chocobo while autorun is on, but I do not actually get on the mount even if I finish the spell. This suggests the server decides whether you get on the mount or not, and even if its response is late (or not at all), you still don't get on the mount. Note that this also works in reverse. You can definitely move with about 0.3s left on any spell and it will almost always finish casting. Your client can easily tell you this action is impossible, but it doesn't matter because it's not the one making the decision. As long as the server says it's okay (and it's okay because to the server you never moved, due to lag), it's also okay to the client.

[Grailer]

in titan you really only die if you get in stacked plumes . land slide is a joke to avoid , just side strafe out and back in to avoid . You can even run into landslide when it appears and avoid it . Only way to get hit is for it to appear on you and you either don't move or you run out and get hit . So remember run out and back into it = 100% avoidance .

The game reminds me of the matrix , the game world has rules but you can bend these rules using the lag, like casting spells and moving while still casting and not getting interrupted etc ,

[Astarica]

in titan you really only die if you get in stacked plumes . land slide is a joke to avoid , just side strafe out and back in to avoid . You can even run into landslide when it appears and avoid it . Only way to get hit is for it to appear on you and you either don't move or you run out and get hit . So remember run out and back into it = 100% avoidance .

The 'run out and then in' sort of works because most of the problematic abilities must be preempted. That is, you must be moving before it happens to reliably avoid it. Therefore, 'run out and then in' is not preempting the action, and is almost certainly too slow for you to get the intended effect (run back in and get hit by AE), so you actually end up avoiding the AE. That said, if you can run out of something, you can just stay out of it too. It's most certainly not the 'run back in' part that makes you avoid the AE.

[Astarica]

I did the 'Esuna test' a bit more, but I used mount chocobo because it has a very distinct result when the spell succeeded. Although this game is laggy, it is not common to have an entire second of lag, so in the interest of saving time here's what I did:

1. Cast mount chocobo.
2. Auto-run on with 0.5s left (this basically simulates a 0.5s casting).

Now there are obviously some room for error based on my reflexes, but what usually happens is that I start running at 0.5s, the spell castbar finishes, but I do not get on the mount.

This means despite the fact that the 'spell interrupted' message never came, the server did get the fact that my position has changed and thus did not allow the spell to complete. The client was not told of this, but the outcome is consistent with what you'd expect (shouldn't be able to cast a spell while running). The server doesn't really care that it interrupted my spell without ever telling my client that it was interrupted, which is consistent with the assumption that the client has basically no power to do anything to begin with. In this case, it isn't even being told the spell was interrupted.

[Kaethra]

The OP makes a good point, but its not all doom and gloom and wouldn't take millions to fix. What could be done is a hybridization of the two systems. The server will check your movements over a larger area and let the client select where it is on a smaller scale. This is how other MMOs actually do it. If you ever played WoW, you'll notice that some people who are lagging are teleporting a bit in a predictable pattern or chunks. They kinda stay sill then move and repeat.

Althea's suggestion on pg 10 is also a simple way to fix the issue. Let the clients tell the server they exited or re-entered the AOE. Yes it will make it easier to hack to be immune to AOE, but the impact is alot less than the overworld mining teleports already in effect.

[Astarica]

It's because the fix is easy (have client handle it) is why this problem is extremely hard. The problem didn't come due to lack of understanding of how fundamental MMORPG concepts work. It's because someone up there chose to go against the norm and until that guy changes his mind you can't possibly fix it. It's not like someone just facerolled and accidentally produced this server-based code that is nothing like any other MMORPG. It's obviously very deliberate which is why it is very difficult to convince the guy who thought this is a good idea to change it.

[Dyrstahl]

Just curious: how was FF11s netcode? Is it similar to other mmorpgs or FF14?

[Blarp]

Just curious: how was FF11s netcode? Is it similar to other mmorpgs or FF14?

It was equally terrible, but the gameplay was so slow, you could play with like 500ms and never notice.