The way of the Warrior. Mitigation fix

[ZDamned]

Awesome input. I'd agree that the restoration based on damage taken might be a better approach and would help maintain balance from 1-50 (it's easy for us to forget that not everyone is endgame oriented). If the Healing-to-enmity ratio on the SP heal was 1:1 (or something that works) it would also help us use the ability without feeling a significant loss of enmity from not spamming BB. Potency could be adjusted to grant the same-ish enmity while letting use actively decide between more dmg or more healing. The CD suite is certainly an issue - I think there are many routes to be taken here.

We already have a Potency advantage. Butchers Block is 20 Higher than Rage of Halone.
Healing Enmity is sort of not an issue at all unless you get tunnel Sighted, in which case, a Flash, or an Overpower make up for it and overcompensate. However out Enmity combo deals more threat naturally than Paladin.

[JBar]

We already have a Potency advantage. Butchers Block is 20 Higher than Rage of Halone.
Healing Enmity is sort of not an issue at all unless you get tunnel Sighted, in which case, a Flash, or an Overpower make up for it and overcompensate. However out Enmity combo deals more threat naturally than Paladin.

Sorry, Maybe I wasn't specific enough here. I'm talking about balancing the potency and enmity of BB vs SP so they are equivalent enmity output - allowing us to make the choice to use BB for Damage or SP for healing without the worry of losing threat. Basically, leave BB as is for when you want to do damage - and adjust the potency of SP to make it healing oriented. It makes a trade off that causes the tank to actively make more choices.

[ZDamned]

Sorry, Maybe I wasn't specific enough here. I'm talking about balancing the potency and enmity of BB vs SP so they are equivalent enmity output - allowing us to make the choice to use BB for Damage or SP for healing without the worry of losing threat. Basically, leave BB as is for when you want to do damage - and adjust the potency of SP to make it healing oriented. It makes a trade off that causes the tank to actively make more choices.

I love that idea actually, and I have 1 suggestion to fix it up. Move it over to combo with Skull Sunder instead of Maim, adjust it to be the same Enmity as Skull sunder, so it's not the only move used in that combo.

Thanks for clarifying what you mean. It's a great Idea to me too.

[Kitru]

We already have a Potency advantage. Butchers Block is 20 Higher than Rage of Halone.

Look at the DPS/enmity calcs in my signature. The higher enmity off of Butcher's Block is drastically inhibited by the fact that one-third of our rotation is devoted to attacks that don't have high enmity modifiers, not to mention Defiance having a larger penalty to damage. It takes all of the WAR multipliers to make up for that loss of high enmity modifiers.

If Storm's Path were turned into a fundamental part of the WAR rotation (BB>BB>SP), replacing Storm's Eye would drop average enmity potency per GCD (assuming 2x enmity mod for tank stances; yes, I know it's wrong, but as long as the PLD and WAR stances are the same, it doesn't matter) from 1403.18 to 1290.10, compared to a PLD's 1355.78. It's *just* outside of the "within 5% of each other" balance point that most MMOs strive for (it would drop WAR damage to 306.57, which, compared to the PLD 297.73, is well within the 5%).

[ZDamned]

Look at the DPS/enmity calcs in my signature. The higher enmity off of Butcher's Block is drastically inhibited by the fact that one-third of our rotation is devoted to attacks that don't have high enmity modifiers, not to mention Defiance having a larger penalty to damage. It takes all of the WAR multipliers to make up for that loss of high enmity modifiers.

I totally forgot about that! Switching off Butchers Block is pure damage enmity, vs Boosted which Paladins have the whole time. Thanks for that wake up. I totally forgot that. Though, I think the reason it's there is because we need to be able to attack a boss with null Enmity attacks in order to not steal threat once it' s a 1 boss left standing fight. but yeah, that's a great point I missed entirely.

[JBar]

Look at the DPS/enmity calcs in my signature. The higher enmity off of Butcher's Block is drastically inhibited by the fact that one-third of our rotation is devoted to attacks that don't have high enmity modifiers, not to mention Defiance having a larger penalty to damage. It takes all of the WAR multipliers to make up for that loss of high enmity modifiers.

If Storm's Path were turned into a fundamental part of the WAR rotation (BB>BB>SP), replacing Storm's Eye would drop average enmity potency per GCD

Right! What I'm saying is we make BB and SP of equivalent enmity - so you could say BB>SP>SE, BB>BB>SE, or SP>SP>SE and generate *relatively* the same enmity. We'd have to look at other venues of keeping WAR dps on par with Pallys - but it gives us the option to actually use more of our kit.

[Kitru]

Right! What I'm saying is we make BB and SP of equivalent enmity - so you could say BB>SP>SE, BB>BB>SE, or SP>SP>SE and generate *relatively* the same enmity.

To keep it balanced with PLD, you'd have to drop the enmity on BB by a lot (my math says that you'd have to drop the enmity modifier on Butcher's Block from x5 to x3 to get away with increasing Maim to x3 and Storm's Eye to x3). Basically, WAR only gets to have Maim and Storm's Eye because we have to sacrifice enmity on a regular basis to put them up (and we're expected to, in fact). Provide them with high enmity without nerfing BB and you start giving WAR *way* more than PLD (it would increase total enmity generation for WAR by about 28.3%; WAR enmity is within 3.5% compared to PLD, over when not paired up and under when they are paired up).

The problem with reducing the enmity mod on BB is that you're reducing WAR frontload enmity to less than it already is. WAR *already* has to decide between opening with BB to prevent someone from pulling off of you in the first 3 GCDs or open with SE to maximize aggro generation but risk losing aggro. Furthermore, you're not really providing much reason to differentiate the rotation. By giving SE and SP high enmity modifiers, since BB's damage/enmity advantage really isn't all that impressive, you're really just swapping the WAR rotation from BB>BB>SE to SP>SP>SE (maintain Maim and the slashing debuff for SP and get as much self healing as possible) or SP>SE (full uptime on Maim and slashing debuff while getting self healing regularly). The only reason that WAR *uses* BB, at the moment, is because it's high enmity. Give that to the other combos and it doesn't really have much of a purpose.

[CurlyBruce]

Look at the DPS/enmity calcs in my signature. The higher enmity off of Butcher's Block is drastically inhibited by the fact that one-third of our rotation is devoted to attacks that don't have high enmity modifiers, not to mention Defiance having a larger penalty to damage. It takes all of the WAR multipliers to make up for that loss of high enmity modifiers.

So I've been thinking about this and did a few of my own calculations and I don't see how WAR generates more enmity.

PLD:
150+600+1300=>2050*.8=>1640*3=>4920

WAR BB only:
150+600+1400=>2150*.75=>1612.5*3=>4837.5

WAR SE>BB:
150+190+324+200+800+1867+200+800+1867=>6398*.75=>4798.5

WAR BB>SE (assuming maim/SE up for BB):
200+800+1867+200+800+1867+180+228+324=>6466*.75=>4849.5

That's ignoring buffs but Fight or Flight is better than Berserk for overall damage increase and Spirit's/Circle only marginally less of a damage increase than Internal Release+Wrath.

[Kitru]

I don't see how WAR generates more enmity.

You're using the wrong rotation. BB>SE is worse at generating enmity than BB>BB>SE. The SE debuff isn't important enough to maintain at all times; all you need it for the BB combos. Maim, on the other hand, needs to be maintained constantly. As such, you let SE lapse but refresh Maim right as its about to fall off. Gives you a lot more enmity.

[CurlyBruce]

You're using the wrong rotation. BB>SE is worse at generating enmity than BB>BB>SE. The SE debuff isn't important enough to maintain at all times; all you need it for the BB combos. Maim, on the other hand, needs to be maintained constantly. As such, you let SE lapse but refresh Maim right as its about to fall off. Gives you a lot more enmity.

I get that, which is why I included it as BB>SE and did the calculations assuming the 2 BB combos would have Maim+Storm's Eye and the Storm's Eye combo would have Maim. Even then PLD still generates more enmity according to my results.