Market Wards, enough is enough

[Wolfie]

Just because I have a different opinion than you, doesn't mean I've been duped. It just means I disagree with you.

Except mine isn't an opinion, it's an objective analysis of a system, backed up with examples.

We're done here. You have no counter argument besides "that's just, like, your opinion man".

[Shai]

Except mine isn't an opinion, it's an objective analysis of a system, backed up with examples.

We're done here. You have no counter argument besides "that's just, like, your opinion man".

That's the argument you used. How come you can use it and Wynn can't? ; ;

[Physic]

Except mine isn't an opinion, it's an objective analysis of a system, backed up with examples.

We're done here. You have no counter argument besides "that's just, like, your opinion man".

the equivalent of why you like AH applied to the rest of the game would turn it into go to an npc counter, select your enemy from a list of all available enemies, choose level, and click to kill it. Its fast, its effecient, its also a pretty empty system. The reason you prefer it is because you dont like those aspects of gameplay and want to diminish it. This is fine, but some people actually like merchanting/selling etc, many people want to see it grow even more, with shop customization, bigger more complex wards, player owned shops, advertising, etc. The perfect AH that you want kills any possibility of this stuff mattering.

So its really just your opinion, on which type of game you would prefer to see created, and the level of immersion you want for that aspect of the game, maybe people share your opinion, maybe they dont.

[Dreamer]

the equivalent of why you like AH applied to the rest of the game would turn it into go to an npc counter, select your enemy from a list of all available enemies, choose level, and click to kill it. Its fast, its effecient, its also a pretty empty system. The reason you prefer it is because you dont like those aspects of gameplay and want to diminish it. This is fine, but some people actually like merchanting/selling etc, many people want to see it grow even more, with shop customization, bigger more complex wards, player owned shops, advertising, etc. The perfect AH that you want kills any possibility of this stuff mattering.

So its really just your opinion, on which type of game you would prefer to see created, and the level of immersion you want for that aspect of the game, maybe people share your opinion, maybe they dont.

A concise explanation of exactly why I don't want an AH. Well said.

[SuzakuCMX]

Except mine isn't an opinion, it's an objective analysis of a system, backed up with examples.

We're done here. You have no counter argument besides "that's just, like, your opinion man".

*Examples backed by assumptions

[Wolfie]

*Examples backed by assumptions

Markets and Retainers
Q. Today's maintenance introduced several changes to the Markets. Are there further changes planned?
A. The Markets have been a hot topic since the game's release, and today's maintenance was the first step in making this feature better suited to the needs of the players. With that step we saw the introduction of a one-click targeting system, making it easier to access a retainer's list of wares. We also saw a renaming of the wards combined with a reduced-tax system aimed to promote a more organized distribution of goods, therefore making it easier for players to find the items they seek.

For our next step, we plan on introducing additional features to make navigating the Markets even easier. These include the implementation of a search feature that will not only help players locate items in a Market district, but then display an icon next to the retainers who have those items, reducing the hassle of having to look through the inventories of retainers who may not have what a player seeks.

Source: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...e6fc02b03b1184

and a lot of people dont want to play amazon.com the game, but even amazon.com doesnt instantly give you the items you purchase

Way to completely miss the point of my post. I wasn't asking to turn this game into amazon.com the game, I was using amazon.com (and Neopets and Dragonica, since I noticed you had nothing to say against those. You know, since they're actual MMOs, with a working, GOOD shop/bazaar system) as examples of bazaar/shop systems that WORK WELL.

Amazon doesn't instantly give you the purchase because it's the real world, and items need to be delivered. But if you want me to paint you an example of Real Life Market Wards compared to Real Life Amazon.com, Amazon.com delivers your item to you in 2-10 days. Real Life Market Ward forces you to go pick up your item from a distribution center several miles away, but for some strange reason, your item will not be available for pickup for at least a month after purchase.

Again, you completely missed my point when I used amazon.com as an example.

the equivalent of why you like AH applied to the rest of the game would turn it into go to an npc counter, select your enemy from a list of all available enemies, choose level, and click to kill it. Its fast, its effecient, its also a pretty empty system. The reason you prefer it is because you dont like those aspects of gameplay and want to diminish it. This is fine, but some people actually like merchanting/selling etc, many people want to see it grow even more, with shop customization, bigger more complex wards, player owned shops, advertising, etc. The perfect AH that you want kills any possibility of this stuff mattering.

So its really just your opinion, on which type of game you would prefer to see created, and the level of immersion you want for that aspect of the game, maybe people share your opinion, maybe they dont.

Strawman, much? I'm dissecting NPC based Market Wards because it's an actual inconvenience to game play; it's riddled with shortcomings and unnecessary overhead for the simple task it's trying to accomplish. A shop/bazaar system that doesn't require rendering NPCs will work pretty much the same way, except without the excessive zoning, crashing, and limitations. Do you even bother to read what I write, or do you just start assuming things and coming up with strawmen the moment I say MW's current implementation is bad?

[Physic]

Markets and Retainers
Q. Today's maintenance introduced several changes to the Markets. Are there further changes planned?
A. The Markets have been a hot topic since the game's release, and today's maintenance was the first step in making this feature better suited to the needs of the players. With that step we saw the introduction of a one-click targeting system, making it easier to access a retainer's list of wares. We also saw a renaming of the wards combined with a reduced-tax system aimed to promote a more organized distribution of goods, therefore making it easier for players to find the items they seek.

For our next step, we plan on introducing additional features to make navigating the Markets even easier. These include the implementation of a search feature that will not only help players locate items in a Market district, but then display an icon next to the retainers who have those items, reducing the hassle of having to look through the inventories of retainers who may not have what a player seeks.

Source: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...e6fc02b03b1184



Way to completely miss the point of my post. I wasn't asking to turn this game into amazon.com the game, I was using amazon.com (and Neopets and Dragonica, since I noticed you had nothing to say against those. You know, since they're actual MMOs, with a working, GOOD shop/bazaar system) as examples of bazaar/shop systems that WORK WELL.

Amazon doesn't instantly give you the purchase because it's the real world, and items need to be delivered. But if you want me to paint you an example of Real Life Market Wards compared to Real Life Amazon.com, Amazon.com delivers your item to you in 2-10 days. Real Life Market Ward forces you to go pick up your item from a distribution center several miles away, but for some strange reason, your item will not be available for pickup for at least a month after purchase.

Again, you completely missed my point when I used amazon.com as an example.



Strawman, much? I'm dissecting NPC based Market Wards because it's an actual inconvenience to game play; it's riddled with shortcomings and unnecessary overhead for the simple task it's trying to accomplish. A shop/bazaar system that doesn't require rendering NPCs will work pretty much the same way, except without the excessive zoning, crashing, and limitations. Do you even bother to read what I write, or do you just start assuming things and coming up with strawmen the moment I say MW's current implementation is bad?

im just telling you straight up why so many people disagree with you, apparently you dont want to listen. Im not saying your wrong for wanting to turn buying and selling into an instant text based game, im just telling you why a bunch of people might not want an instant text based game.

There is also the exploitation issues that occur with instant trading, much like when the stock market had etrading, but those could probably be at least somewhat controled via heavy oversight and planning. The real issue is, what type of merchant game do you want to play, you prefer amazon, some people prefer the mall.

and yeah its more MW is probably closer to buying things in a mall, and amazon is buying things online, but in the amazon case, the main downside is it isnt instant, in your case, you want to make amazon have instant, faster than going to the mall implications. I didnt mention your other examples cause i dont play those games.

npc bazaar system, could be ok, but for me i always find rpgs more immesive and entertaining where you actually had towns, and shops, rather than the ones where you only had a back drop, then clicked shop and a portrait and items appeared, this is a matter opinion, not law.

[Wolfie]

im just telling you straight up why so many people disagree with you, apparently you dont want to listen. Im not saying your wrong for wanting to turn buying and selling into an instant text based game, im just telling you why a bunch of people might not want an instant text based game.

There is also the exploitation issues that occur with instant trading, much like when the stock market had etrading, but those could probably be at least somewhat controled via heavy oversight and planning. The real issue is, what type of merchant game do you want to play, you prefer amazon, some people prefer the mall.

and yeah its more MW is probably closer to buying things in a mall, and amazon is buying things online, but in the amazon case, the main downside is it isnt instant, in your case, you want to make amazon have instant, faster than going to the mall implications. I didnt mention your other examples cause i dont play those games.

npc bazaar system, could be ok, but for me i always find rpgs more immesive and entertaining where you actually had towns, and shops, rather than the ones where you only had a back drop, then clicked shop and a portrait and items appeared, this is a matter opinion, not law.

Rendering NPC shops doesn't prevent any kind of exploitation, though. That's all how the trading system is set up, which is independent of what's causing issues with MW.

But if people insist on having shopping malls, then SE should add the amazon.com for the rest of us that don't like malls and we'll have our two separate systems. =D

[Physic]

Rendering NPC shops doesn't prevent any kind of exploitation, though. That's all how the trading system is set up, which is independent of what's causing issues with MW.

But if people insist on having shopping malls, then SE should add the amazon.com for the rest of us that don't like malls and we'll have our two separate systems. =D

they could do this, as long as they had some downside to the amazon versus the mall. Like, the delivery taking longer. or heavy taxes. But in all honesty, i think right now they just want to have something that functions while they fix bigger things. i dont see MW or AH getting any major revisions anytime soon. They may focus on stability, or adding inventory or easy things, but thats about it for awhile Id say.

[Rentahamster]

they could do this, as long as they had some downside to the amazon versus the mall.

The fact that you have to artificially introduce "downsides" to the amazon method just proves its superiority.