Could MRD Possible Be The Best Melee DPS Class ? (Theory Crathing)

[OmegaSinX]

Ok, So before you guys start calling me crazy I want you to hear me out. I've been doing some testing and it seems Marauders are capable of doing some pretty impressive DPS even as a tanking class. It made me wonder how far can MRD DPS go if I had Full Allagan Gear + Allagan Greateaxe because gear seems to be the only thing holding me back. With that kinda of arsenal, I think a MRD will give a MNK & DRG (and possibly BRD and BLM) a run for their money. Here why I believe they could compete for Top DPS even as a Tank.


1. MRD/WAR Combo's have some of highest Potency in the Game.
2. MRD/WAR have high auto attack weapon damage compared to other classes.
3. MRD are able to take advantage of othere class best DPS boosting abilities while they dont share any of theirs.

-MRD is able to use Internal Release (+20% Crit), Straight Shot (+10% Crit), Raging Strikes (+20% Damage), Hawk Eye (+15 DEX +20% Acc), Blood for Blood (+20% Damage)

- Maim (Boost Damage +20%) Berserk (Boost Attack +50%) and Strom Eye (Reduce Target Slashing Resist -10%), Vegeance ( 50 Potency counter attack everytime your attacked) Are MRD/WAR Exclusive.

Please offer construtive Feedback. No Trolls Welcomed

[Gamemako]

This thread has been done many times. All you have to do is compare to LNC/DRG to see that MRD is behind. I will quote myself from here:

That won't happen, but MRD does respectable DPS against comparably-equipped dedicated DPS job. DRG has 42 more base strength than MRD, which alone is 8-10% more DPS. It then has more potency on everything, plus more off-GCD attacks. To put the off-GCD in context, MRD has 1.67 potency per second in off-GCD abilities while DRG has 15.89. In total, DRG is going to roll 25% more DPS pretty easily before abilities are taken into account. WAR just gets better burst ability, with Raging Strikes + Berserk + Blood for Blood putting up about 101.6% damage boost over 20s and 68% boost over another 20s period per 180s.Time-weighted, these bursts are about 19% DPS boost. DRG's use of Blood for Blood only will put up around a 7.5% damage boost. Now, you could just look at the strength difference here and realize that it alone accounts for the greater burst ability of MRD -- 1.075*1.1=1.1825. The greater potency is where DRG will extend a lead with identical equipment, but it's not a large one. The thing that kills MRD as a DPS is the lack of appropriate equipment.

That's pretty much all there is to it. MRD DPS is good, but not quite comparable to dedicated DPS. DRG will lead by ~10% or so (just a reasonable estimate). Job abilities will cover the difference when we get a DPS job from MRD.

//EDIT: Also, all autoattacks are normalized to 100 potency per 3 seconds. The only exception here is Sword Oath, which adds a flat 50 potency to each hit. This is actually an effective increase of 64% to autoattack damage rate with Curtana/+1.

[ZDamned]

I also want to just chime in 1 flaw in DPS with Marauder, vs lets say a job that might be a DPS role for the class.

The highest potency combo we have is also HEAVY enmity. Issue being, if we are in a DPS mode, we will end up ripping aggro from the tank. Just because we can take the hit, doesn't mean we should, and it can spell doom for other Melee if the boss is turned randomly like this. And no, the Quelling Shot ability is not going to be enough to combat this issue for a full duration fight.
That being said, you can reasonably DPS as a "tank" in AK/WP easily enough when you out gear those instances.

Basically, IF you are not fighting with a tank for enmity, you are just being a higher enmity DPSer with better HP. IMO, heed Gamemako's words, and play Dragoon. It will be better off no matter what.

[Shinkyo]

Well MRD being on par with MNK/DRG would be plainly wrong but I like the flexibility to be a decent melee DPS without having to lvl another class.
We still do titan in my group to help new lvl 50 in my FC and being able to go as a melee DPS (with better gear than most of what you'd find in shouts or DF) is nice.
Especially, since I'm experienced with the fight, good at dodging and won't get hit too hard if I make a mistake.

If I can really only 10% less efficient than a DRG in equal gear, I'm sure my FC would greatly appreciate that.
Hell, I might even be able to offtank Garuda adds in MRD DPS gear. That'd be sweet.

[Kitru]

1. MRD/WAR Combo's have some of highest Potency in the Game.

Not true. Remember that magic potency and attack potency aren't really done to the same scale so you can't count the caster potencies. The only thing that Butcher's Block looks good against is Rage of Halone, which is 260. LNC gets Full Thrust at 300. MNK gets 15% increased attack speed so the potency per GCD of their attacks are is 17.6% higher than listed (not to mention that it gets *way* more multipliers than MAR gets: 22.5% from Greased Lightning, 10% from Twin Strikes, 5% from Fists of Fire, 11.1% from Dragon Kick).

2. MRD/WAR have high auto attack weapon damage compared to other classes.

All classes deal the exact same potency per GCD with their auto-attack: 83.33. MAR hits harder per hit but hits almost half as often as a GLA. MAR deals the *exact* same amount of damage with its auto-attack as anyone else.

3. MRD are able to take advantage of othere class best DPS boosting abilities while they dont share any of theirs.

Berserk does not add *nearly* as much damage as you think it does, partly because it's an increase to attack power rather than outright damage (it's closer to a 33-40% increase in damage than 50%) and mostly because that 5% Pacification debuff is completely neuters the contribution: you get 20 seconds of 140% special attack damage and 5 seconds of 0% special attack damage, which is means that you're getting only really getting 112% of the special attack damage that you would have dealt over the duration.

Furthermore, Vengeance isn't going to be useful to you in the least because you have to actually be attacked (and, btw, it only applies to *physical* attacks; it doesn't reflect for magic attacks). Also, the 10% debuff from Storm's Eye is not really an exclusive benefit: MNK gets a 10% Bludgeoning damage debuff and LNC gets a 10% piercing damage debuff.

On top of all of this, MAR, as a class instead of a job, starts off with lower stats than the actual jobs so it's starting from a place of weakness.

To top all of this off, if you look at the actual DPS jobs, their on-GCD attacks are not their only sources of damage: the MNK and DRG stuns both hit several times as hard as Brutal Swing does on similar timers and BRD gets Bloodletter (with River of Blood) and Misery's End; DRG also gets the jumps that amount to *more* off-GCD damage.

MAR only looks good for the DPS role when you exclude most of the actual advantages that the DPS classes get and forget to account for the uptimes of the various additional skills (Straight Shot is a 5% increase in damage from the buff but drops DPS by a fair deal since you're talking about using a low potency attack for 1 GCD out of every 8 to maintain that buff, Internal Release provides a whopping ~2% increase in damage dealt, Blood for Blood is a 5%, and Raging Strikes is 3.33%; Hawk Eye would do pretty much nothing since Dex doesn't affect MAR damage in the least).

[Avalon_Albrook]

O HAI, KITRU!

(sorry, I have no contribution beyond that)

[DeeJayImut]

good dps

good tanker

so imba

and SE will buff them more

imba

buff PLD too

[Eightbit]

I think I have a crush on Kitru or maybe it's just the math and logic.

[Sigrunn]

Who's actually put it into practice instead of just talking theory? There is my MRD and another JP DPS MRD running around somewhere that can out-DPS my DRG friend (+1/DL). I'm using Titan Axe and 4/5 DPS accs now. 379 STR. My friend has parsed but I have yet to parse it since I got BFB.

I posted this pic in the other thread: http://i.imgur.com/0zfHTzV.jpg

[darzok]

The only time you will beat a MNK/DRG is when you are a much better player and or have better gear but War is still doing some nice damage over all.

Its a nice dream but we will all ways fall short but hell its still fun to try.