Old FFXI minds vs New Generation ideas

[gifthorse]

What is this I hear... oh yes, player polls, and reviews....what...flexible is crap...yes yes...I understand... we are going back to the world of inflexible class and role designations...

But...why would we want to not have everything to choose from at our finger tips? Because it's doesn't work in practice as everyone becomes the same. Melee, semi melee, and healer-melee... Spam-on!

This is FFXIVcore.com all over again.

We've been through this a million times, Kukurumei. I admire your pragmatism and your willingness to shoot every single suggestion down, but flexibility can work if the system fosters it. At the moment, everything was thrown together with little though as to how people would use them and as to how diversity could be crushed.

There will always be a Flavour of the Month type build in a system like this, which is why balance is an eternal thing. Achieving balance can't be reached in an MMO quickly, and a system needs to be adjusted over time to give it the diversity it needs.

A system such as the armory one, which gives players the freedom to play the role they want (in theory), you must agree has more potential than one where classes are given to you.

I can see the point of balance being an issue, where content needs to be balanced against the possibilities of each class, and each amalgamation of each class, but SE employees don't get paid for nothing. This isn't an insurmountable task, and i think the pros outweight the cons.

Classic classes can coexist within this system also, when you consider them as specialisations within the armory system. SE can help to engender the classic classes as specialisations with the addition of certain parameters (be they in the form of gear, personal tags, abilities, etc), in which case diversity can be preserved and so can the flexibility.

[JakeRoon]

FFxi squeal [no thanks]

I played since ps2 release loved it, hated it. Played just about every mmo to ever come about that had an open beta or a free trial. there are a lot of stinkers out there, and some great ideas.

One thing I learned though- you have to go through a butt-ton of stinkers to find that one good idea. That's where we are now folks.

Yeah, it's the easy way to just say "Make it like it was, we got used to that after 7 years!" Yet, that still doesn't change the fact that; what we got used to was pretty much a nightmare compared to other games.

Forced grouping [or go beast master out of spite like me]
An interface that would make Chuck Norris cry.

The list goes on and on. All the while Older games had more, Dark age of Camelot, Anarchy online, etc etc. These games went miles to make a world awe inspiring and "effected" by their players.

So please, hop off the hay wagon of "I want ffxi-2" and Ride That Turquoise Jeep, baby of "I don't know what this is gonna be but it's gonna be awesome!"

Seriously when I read the player pole of how many of you wanted to lock down gear again, and stuff like that I was just like [minion] WhhhHHhaaattTTT?

Like "THANK YOU SIR MAY A HAVE ANOTHER!!!"

I know you guys are hardcore but heck, man....give a lalafell some love, I need to be able to solo and sport my goggle hat.

[Moth]

FFxi squeal [no thanks]

I played since ps2 release loved it, hated it. Played just about every mmo to ever come about that had an open beta or a free trial. there are a lot of stinkers out there, and some great ideas.

One thing I learned though- you have to go through a butt-ton of stinkers to find that one good idea. That's where we are now folks.

Yeah, it's the easy way to just say "Make it like it was, we got used to that after 7 years!" Yet, that still doesn't change the fact that; what we got used to was pretty much a nightmare compared to other games.

Forced grouping [or go beast master out of spite like me]
An interface that would make Chuck Norris cry.

The list goes on and on. All the while Older games had more, Dark age of Camelot, Anarchy online, etc etc. These games went miles to make a world awe inspiring and "effected" by their players.

So please, hop off the hay wagon of "I want ffxi-2" and Ride That Turquoise Jeep, baby of "I don't know what this is gonna be but it's gonna be awesome!"

Seriously when I read the player pole of how many of you wanted to lock down gear again, and stuff like that I was just like [minion] WhhhHHhaaattTTT?

Like "THANK YOU SIR MAY A HAVE ANOTHER!!!"

I know you guys are hardcore but heck, man....give a lalafell some love, I need to be able to solo and sport my goggle hat.

I believe the whole point of online games are to interact with other real people, not just npcs. Soloing can be fun at times however Final Fantasy games are mainly based on partying with other people, and creating parties to play to everyone strengths and come together to defeat monsters. If you despise partying so much then final fantasy games don't seem to be the type for you.

[Rowyne]

I believe the whole point of online games are to interact with other real people, not just npcs. Soloing can be fun at times however Final Fantasy games are mainly based on partying with other people, and creating parties to play to everyone strengths and come together to defeat monsters. If you despise partying so much then final fantasy games don't seem to be the type for you.

FFXIV has promised from the start it would have both party AND solo content (which is a departure from FFXI, a game that was not designed for soloing). I personally like that. And I know many many MANY other people who will not play an MMO if they cannot solo in it.

I want to party when I want to party, and solo when I want to solo. I don't want to be forced into either.

Besides, Yoshi-P has stated that always having to find a party can be stressful, and imposes on casuals with little playtime. He realizes that forced party play is a bad thing.

[Gath]

FFXIV has promised from the start it would have both party AND solo content (which is a departure from FFXI, a game that was not designed for soloing). I personally like that. And I know many many MANY other people who will not play an MMO if they cannot solo in it.

I want to party when I want to party, and solo when I want to solo. I don't want to be forced into either.

Besides, Yoshi-P has stated that always having to find a party can be stressful, and imposes on casuals with little playtime. He realizes that forced party play is a bad thing.

Casuals :/ too bad the game is run by HARDCORE players.

[the_limitless]

Sorry don t know how to use the quote yet. However i am not saying that WoW is the only MMO to exist in this world. What I mean is that many developers only set goals as if WoW is the only MMO there is, when for example FF14 in my opinion is going to be better if they have more zones like ff11, lesser lag(not sure about server tech, so expert can correct me if i m wrong), more unique map for example, instead of the copy and paste fest that is eorzea (gridania starting area i m looking at you).

I didn t even play WoW, but i ve seen enough developers' videos ( and also obviously played those games) that they make games and UI and battle systems and everything to beat WoW, (most obvious case is WAR and looked what happened to it) and again I would never think WoW as the only MMO, i am sorry if my post implied as such.

BTW back on OP topic, no I don t want this game to become FF11-2, some things in FF11 are done spectacularly like WS, but please not the restrictive party ( no tank or no healer no party) again, waiting in Jeuno( ishgard or uldah) for hours just to either wait for party or wait for mages are not my idea of fun. FF11 UI pretty unintuitive too so not that(FF14 UI is just as bad if not worse). For some reason, the spamming battle system is a 50-50 for me, some day is hella fun( speed surge 2+ full thrust), some other time i m wishing for auto-attack (and its kinda painful pressing the attack button for three hours straight ).

PS. sorry out of topic here, but any of you know, why my sig is not working (i m using ff14 origin sig generator)?

[JakeRoon]

Moth:

These games ARE for me; I am a social person. I love to party when I can. I am a role player as well.

Just because I want to be ABLE to solo if I want to; please do not blanket me into a box that says "sorry mmo's are not for you."

Forced partying is ridiculous.

I am not saying I should be able to level/rank/farm as effectively or efficiently as a party; but I should at least be able to progress my character solo if the need arises (and it does, for everyone).

Rather than return to a system that says: "Sorry no tank, no healer, no progress tonight, or you can sit in town for 4 hours hope one shows up!"

Tell me exactly how that brings a community together? Out of bored-em? They decide to chat while the seek party for hours.

Oh, and please spare me the lecture on "you just didn't seek party right, start your own party, blagh balgh blagh..." I played the game for 7 years I know the ropes.

We all do, and we think the ropes stink.

I think what's really interesting is those who support forced grouping seem to think it's absolutely imperative. They get down right indignant about it some times. When the fact is: THE MOST SUCCESSFUL MMO IN HISTORY OF THE WORLD DOES NOT FORCE GROUPING.

Now I know, I know W.o.W. is the 400 lbs gorilla in the room, but you have to take stock of a game that has 12 million subscribers ppl. Especially if you a running a business that wants those subscribers! And if you think the Execs at SE don't have meetings talking about how they can get some of that W.o.W. pie and koolaid, you are mental.

In the end you have to do what's good for business, and if solo players want to play your game, but will not be able to because you foolishly set it up so solo is impossible; well congratulations you just flushed a lot of money down the toilet.

Lets also bring to light that "ranking up" was the 3rd highest activity for solo play on the survey. So clearly a significant chunk of the player base is on the same Jeep.

/end rant on how forced grouping is ridiculous for a variety of logical reasons.

[Ablongman]

Casuals :/ too bad the game is run by HARDCORE players.

The mindset of "hardcore > casual" needs to die down if you want to see this game succeed. Hardcore players may "run" certain aspects of the game, but I think you'll find that very few people want to dedicate hours comparable to a full-time job's (and often more) to tedious, repetitive tasks to get far in a videogame. "Casuals" power the game's economy by buying the items that the more industrious types craft, and keep it populated.

It is normal for niche communities to resist change, but understand that a game with a decade-old mindset appeals to the handful of you that still live in the early millennium/late 90's. Most people (read: new customers) are looking for something accessible, not a game that practically requires a degree in industry-level troubleshooting to figure out. This game can please both audiences by adding content to pad the grind (which you'll probably ignore as you're hardcore and prefer to grind dodos and marmots), and by fixing the flat-out archaic user interface.

Get with the times. A game can't succeed by looking back, and this game's launch is a prime example of that. Hate WoW and its clones all you like, but the MMO audience is a pretty small segment; either you pick up some of their subscribers, or you won't get far.

[Irishfae]

Casuals :/ too bad the game is run by HARDCORE players.

Seriously???

I consider myself a gamer of all varieties; tabletop, LARPing, console, computer, you name it, I've probably played some incarnation of it at some point and have been since I was in middle school. But I won’t say hardcore, because I’m sure I’d get heat for it.

I'm part of the generation that grew up playing video games and we're also the generation that is taking the place of the retiring workforce, getting married and having kids. Not all of us can play like we used to. I'm no longer in school, I'm married, I have a full time salaried job and just had twin boys. Meaning, I have some something resembling a life. I sneak gaming in when they are asleep, but I’ve got to be able to attend to them at a moments notice. I’ve got the heart of a hardcore gamer, but due to life constrictions I can’t be one.

So, for right now, soloing is my best option, because I don’t want to have to wait around for a party and then have to log off moments later (which I did in XI even before my kids) because it took too long to find a party who needs someone my level and job.

Everyone has different gaming needs and wants. I feel FF has always provided that. You can play the game straight through and not do any of the extras, or you could spend hours working on breeding a golden choco to get knights of the round, or run around and take care of all the marks.

I don’t think this FF should be any different. And I think being able to solo play and actually get somewhere with it is wonderful. A person shouldn't be excluded from enjoying yourself if you can’t play 24/7 and be in a party all the time.

I like a lot of what they are doing with XIV, there is always room for improvements, but MMOs are constantly evolving, even the ones that have been around forever, and you won’t know what you need to modify until your player base gets their hands on it. I enjoyed XI, but even with its obvious flaws, I am enjoying XIV more.

That was probably more off topic than it should have been, my apologies.

[Rowyne]

That was probably more off topic than it should have been, my apologies.

Don't apologize! I think it was a perfect example of how the game audience has evolved and how FF needs to evolve with it. <3