Old FFXI minds vs New Generation ideas

[Moth]

My point is that the game developers should try and foster players by equipping them with the power and tools to create something in this world for themselves. Everyone has fond memories of FFXI but we left nothing behind when we left that game. Our presence there meant nothing to the world because the world would always be the same without us. The landscape didn't change because of us, the beastmen didn't shrink in population because of us, nothing we did ever mattered. Our linkshells did nothing but run instances and kill NMs and party to max level and gear grind... in a practical sense, we never created anything.

I think a MMO should work to help players create things and not just create everything for them already.

I believe it is a matter of opinion then... of course the world did not change. It is a video game. But I had a very different experience with my linkshell and my friends on that game. I created life-long friendships and partnerships that have lasted with me to this day. That game made a huge impact on my life and I loved every minute of it, even the bad times.

I agree it /would/ be interesting to see the players actually affect the world somehow... like if a botanist cut down a tree that tree would remain cut down forever and such. But it /is/ just a game, and doing that would require an un-imaginable amount of technology and money irl to implement it all. I just don't see something like that happening, but I do agree with you that it would be an interesting concept.

[Tinydog]

i played ffxi since COP release and played wow since vanilla (pre expansions). i can tell u now that wow is on a decline. cataclysm ruined wow for ALOT of people. they killed endgame, they killed pugging instances thru the dungeon finder. not to mention dailies, crafting, pvp, and a simplified talent tree. if you go on wow forums its post after post of disappointments. i quit ffxi a little after they released af3 from abyssea(didnt like those quests to get seals) and quit wow about 2 months after cata release.
anyways i think FFXIV has a ton of potential once they release a crap ton of content. i mean they should bring in a party xp format like in FFXI. idk about you but i hate this leves system with a 8 quests every 2 days limit. people have to make silly ways to get more xp by manipulating the leves system. since the lvl cap is only 50, grinding 200-300xp mobs a kill wouldnt be so bad.
the xp in abyssea was awesome, as a blm i had to aga some worms and the melee would do there thing on other worms. i got 5 lvls in about 7 hours of play. thats what made it so fun, u were accomplishing levels in a short amount of time.
now idk if its me but mmo's are starting to suck...mmos are coming out with the wow format, such as WAR, Rift, DC, Tera and even tho they have content at release its still the same ol thing. ffxiv tried to make it different but right now its a grind fest.
Square Enix, its not about trying to put wow and ffxi together into a game its about being original and making a game thats fun for all types of players. Just put in that work and keep making the game free. LOL.

[Ostia]

i played ffxi since COP release and played wow since vanilla (pre expansions). i can tell u now that wow is on a decline. cataclysm ruined wow for ALOT of people. they killed endgame, they killed pugging instances thru the dungeon finder. not to mention dailies, crafting, pvp, and a simplified talent tree. if you go on wow forums its post after post of disappointments. i quit ffxi a little after they released af3 from abyssea(didnt like those quests to get seals) and quit wow about 2 months after cata release.
anyways i think FFXIV has a ton of potential once they release a crap ton of content. i mean they should bring in a party xp format like in FFXI. idk about you but i hate this leves system with a 8 quests every 2 days limit. people have to make silly ways to get more xp by manipulating the leves system. since the lvl cap is only 50, grinding 200-300xp mobs a kill wouldnt be so bad.
the xp in abyssea was awesome, as a blm i had to aga some worms and the melee would do there thing on other worms. i got 5 lvls in about 7 hours of play. thats what made it so fun, u were accomplishing levels in a short amount of time.
now idk if its me but mmo's are starting to suck...mmos are coming out with the wow format, such as WAR, Rift, DC, Tera and even tho they have content at release its still the same ol thing. ffxiv tried to make it different but right now its a grind fest.
Square Enix, its not about trying to put wow and ffxi together into a game its about being original and making a game thats fun for all types of players. Just put in that work and keep making the game free. LOL.

Where is veidis and moth to call this guy a troll ? Oh wait! I forgot <.<

Btw yes cataclysm is in a decline, i do not know what blizzard will do with all their subs seriously 12mil JESUS CHRIST! That game must be bad lol

[Rhianu]

i can tell u now that wow is on a decline. cataclysm ruined wow for ALOT of people. they killed endgame, they killed pugging instances thru the dungeon finder. not to mention dailies, crafting, pvp, and a simplified talent tree. if you go on wow forums its post after post of disappointments.

People have been insisting that WoW is declining ever since 2007 when the first expansion pack, The Burning Crusade, came out. At that time, Blizzard reported around 9 million subscribers, but many people kept trying to say that the actual population had dwindled down to something like 4 million simply because they had seen some people on the forums and in their guilds quit the game. Of course WoW's population had not, in fact, dwindled at all, and actually continued to grow, and now numbers over 12 million subscribers, with the latest expansion pack, Cataclysm, breaking the world record for fastest selling PC game of all time.

Basically what I'm saying here is don't assume WoW is declining just because a couple of your friends rage quit.

[the_limitless]

TBH I still don't get why many people still think that any MMO can even challenge WoW, what western mmo has ever succeeded in getting more than 1 million sub(probably guild wars but it is not technically an MMO), and many of them are WoW clones.

WoW has more than 10 million subs and still growing not because Wow is the best mmo(i am not indicating wow is bad, it is a really good game, just not my type of game), but it's because wow bring in gamers who don't even has any mmo history under their belt, who thinks that wow is the best game eva cause it has 10 mil sub. The population of wow is obviously will keep growing because it is almost impossible to pry these people away from WoW.

The fact that FF14 has seamless worlds (chances are inspired by WoW) which create one hella lag for the real time battle spammers (prob trying to be different to the auto attacking system of FF11 and once again WoW), to the solo friendly system which create the screwed up job system(prob to matched WoW solo friendly content) to its rushed release(prob trying to release it before cataclysm), which resulted in the lack of content, are pretty much the reasons of FF14 failures.

[gifthorse]

TBH I still don't get why many people still think that any MMO can even challenge WoW, what western mmo has ever succeeded in getting more than 1 million sub(probably guild wars but it is not technically an MMO), and many of them are WoW clones.

WoW has more than 10 million subs and still growing not because Wow is the best mmo(i am not indicating wow is bad, it is a really good game, just not my type of game), but it's because wow bring in gamers who don't even has any mmo history under their belt, who thinks that wow is the best game eva cause it has 10 mil sub. The population of wow is obviously will keep growing because it is almost impossible to pry these people away from WoW.

The fact that FF14 has seamless worlds (chances are inspired by WoW) which create one hella lag for the real time battle spammers (prob trying to be different to the auto attacking system of FF11 and once again WoW), to the solo friendly system which create the screwed up job system(prob to matched WoW solo friendly content) to its rushed release(prob trying to release it before cataclysm), which resulted in the lack of content, are pretty much the reasons of FF14 failures.

Or maybe the seamless zones were inspired by the desire to create a bigger, more natural world. Or perhaps inspired by every other MMO title coming out this generation...

WoW isn't the only MMO. Get a grip.

Also, in the first place, FFXIV isn't seemless, it just has large zones. The large zones are one reason why repeating doodads had to be used and why people complain of copy/paste areas. A true seamless engine loads in the environment around the player as the players moves without the need for loading screens, FFXIV instead loads in huge zones at a time, hence the loading screens. And I don't see how this could create lag for spamming actions... The server is under no more stress in these huge zones than in smaller ones. The lag is more of a network issue than an engine one.

Edit:

Also, what screwed up your so-called sacred job system wasn't a shift to being more solo-friendly. The job system was scrapped for a more complex and flexible armory system, which gave people the choice to create their own class, something an MMO Role playing game should encourage.

The solo-friendly aspects were a direct result of complaints made in FFXI about never being able to get anywhere without a party, as it was practically impossible to solo any mobs that even gave 1SP without a party.

[Moth]

Or maybe the seamless zones were inspired by the desire to create a bigger, more natural world. Or perhaps inspired by every other MMO title coming out this generation...

WoW isn't the only MMO. Get a grip.

Also, in the first place, FFXIV isn't seemless, it just has large zones. The large zones are one reason why repeating doodads had to be used and why people complain of copy/paste areas. A true seamless engine loads in the environment around the player as the players moves without the need for loading screens, FFXIV instead loads in huge zones at a time, hence the loading screens. And I don't see how this could create lag for spamming actions... The server is under no more stress in these huge zones than in smaller ones. The lag is more of a network issue than an engine one.

Thanks gifthorse,
Heh I was going to reply to that post with something similar along these lines, I even wrote out some long wall of text but decided it was best to just not say anything.. it is hard to make WoWers believe in anything /but/ Wow, ya know? But you took the words right out of my mouth. *thumbs up*

[kukurumei]

Edit:

Also, what screwed up your so-called sacred job system wasn't a shift to being more solo-friendly. The job system was scrapped for a more complex and flexible armory system, which gave people the choice to create their own class, something an MMO Role playing game should encourage.

The solo-friendly aspects were a direct result of complaints made in FFXI about never being able to get anywhere without a party, as it was practically impossible to solo any mobs that even gave 1SP without a party.

What is this I hear... oh yes, player polls, and reviews....what...flexible is crap...yes yes...I understand... we are going back to the world of inflexible class and role designations...

But...why would we want to not have everything to choose from at our finger tips? Because it's doesn't work in practice as everyone becomes the same. Melee, semi melee, and healer-melee... Spam-on!

[gifthorse]

What is this I hear... oh yes, player polls, and reviews....what...flexible is crap...yes yes...I understand... we are going back to the world of inflexible class and role designations...

But...why would we want to not have everything to choose from at our finger tips? Because it's doesn't work in practice as everyone becomes the same. Melee, semi melee, and healer-melee... Spam-on!

This is FFXIVcore.com all over again.

We've been through this a million times, Kukurumei. I admire your pragmatism and your willingness to shoot every single suggestion down, but flexibility can work if the system fosters it. At the moment, everything was thrown together with little though as to how people would use them and as to how diversity could be crushed.

There will always be a Flavour of the Month type build in a system like this, which is why balance is an eternal thing. Achieving balance can't be reached in an MMO quickly, and a system needs to be adjusted over time to give it the diversity it needs.

A system such as the armory one, which gives players the freedom to play the role they want (in theory), you must agree has more potential than one where classes are given to you.

I can see the point of balance being an issue, where content needs to be balanced against the possibilities of each class, and each amalgamation of each class, but SE employees don't get paid for nothing. This isn't an insurmountable task, and i think the pros outweight the cons.

Classic classes can coexist within this system also, when you consider them as specialisations within the armory system. SE can help to engender the classic classes as specialisations with the addition of certain parameters (be they in the form of gear, personal tags, abilities, etc), in which case diversity can be preserved and so can the flexibility.

[JakeRoon]

FFxi squeal [no thanks]

I played since ps2 release loved it, hated it. Played just about every mmo to ever come about that had an open beta or a free trial. there are a lot of stinkers out there, and some great ideas.

One thing I learned though- you have to go through a butt-ton of stinkers to find that one good idea. That's where we are now folks.

Yeah, it's the easy way to just say "Make it like it was, we got used to that after 7 years!" Yet, that still doesn't change the fact that; what we got used to was pretty much a nightmare compared to other games.

Forced grouping [or go beast master out of spite like me]
An interface that would make Chuck Norris cry.

The list goes on and on. All the while Older games had more, Dark age of Camelot, Anarchy online, etc etc. These games went miles to make a world awe inspiring and "effected" by their players.

So please, hop off the hay wagon of "I want ffxi-2" and Ride That Turquoise Jeep, baby of "I don't know what this is gonna be but it's gonna be awesome!"

Seriously when I read the player pole of how many of you wanted to lock down gear again, and stuff like that I was just like [minion] WhhhHHhaaattTTT?

Like "THANK YOU SIR MAY A HAVE ANOTHER!!!"

I know you guys are hardcore but heck, man....give a lalafell some love, I need to be able to solo and sport my goggle hat.