Issues with Coil: Statics v. The Rest of Us

[Levanin]

Entire thread is ridiculous:

1: If you get rid of the lockout and make it a gear lockout you would have FC/LS's running 7 people who can't get the drops running 1 guy through to pocket every single drop and fully gear in weeks.

2: If you cannot get in a static:
A: Find a better LS/FC, mine and many others run static free but its always in-house runs regardless (currently 4 groups every week getting to T5 in about 1hr).
B: You might be bad and people do not want to play with you.

3: If its put into DF and casuals get to wipe endlessly to content they are obv not going to be geared for, they will cry for it to be nerfed and SE will do it, the fact that this game exist in the way it currently does proves SE is bending over for bad players.

I've been lurking on these forums, for a very long time, but this thread has brought out the most face palm ever, this guy here, he gets it.

If there was a "loot lockout" I would force my FC to level a second character, gear them out, then run 7 alts and 1 main for coil, and do this 8x a week, and be geared for every class for everyone on their main in just a few weeks (depending on drops). this would instantly break the game, not to mention the fact that it would require a ridiculous amount of time, but, that doesn't matter when progress is at stake. for a top end FC, they would do this, guaranteed.

the lockout is simply a way of saving players from themselves, and not forcing them to burn out on the content. if you had to do coil 9+ times a week, and all but one of those times, you got nothing, how fast would the burn out be for you? for someone else, maybe not so bad, but for me, and for other friends of mine, as well as many people when this same idea was proposed in other games, said this kind of thing would kill the game for them.

also, difficult content that is made for DF is being made right now, its called Crystal Tower. wait another month until it comes out, then you have your tough DF content. They plan on doing it this way, top end small static group patch (like coil) then casual friendly raid patch DF unlocked (Crystal Tower, stuff to be determined later). this will give content for those groups of players. You can still pug coil, in a shout group.

This is a social game, dungeon finder will not increase the social aspect of the game, in fact, it does the opposite, keeping coil the way it is, is GOOD for the game. You might not see it, But I do, because turning coil into a DF wipefest will not increase peoples enjoyment of the game, in fact, it will lessen it, because the social aspect will get thrown out the window and everyone will go at each others throats in those groups until people quit the game. There is very many more cons to this idea then pros.

This would also make people sell coil runs, people pay good money to get run through titan, full coil gear in a couple weeks for a couple million gil? sounds like a good deal. if you don't like people selling titan runs, get ready for the people selling coil runs, and it will be much, MUCH, more rampant.

These ideas from similar games have been debunked numerous times, for these reasons.

[Cobayn]

I agree with you Gilbert.

ONe thing that's always bothered me in MMOs I've played is that eventually, players start asking for specific people to join their static or pugs. Why shouldn't they? They have a right to and it's common sense to do so if you want to succeed and be effective, but... then it becomes like the old 'can't get a job cause you don't have work experience' thing. If you don't have experience with a particular dungeon, you can't get in the group, but you can't get experience without getting into a group... kinda screwed there.

Making every dungeon available in Duty Find would provide a great option to learn the dungeon, fail or succeed, and get that experience you need to join a that pug or that well established static. Always thought that was the point of Duty Find, since you're grouped up with random people that may or may not have the skills to succeed in a particular dungeon. You can expect to win if you want to but, you're still playing russian roulette.

No one is talking about making the content easier (tho I think I've read that the devs plan to do so as new, harder content is made available, no?), we're just talking about making it more accessible so that people can experience and learn the content. Sure, that'll piss off the elitist among us who like to feel exclusive, but, heh, you never rise above others by kicking them down or keeping them from climbing up.


EDIT: Post above me refers to people selling coil to players who can't complete it. I think the fact that more people would get access to the dungeon and be able to learn it well enough to start joining pugs or statics would mean less people resorting to buying their way through.

[Allyrion]

Snip.

Your whole issue seems like it'd be solved by the group finder system they're adding next patch.
You will be able to form a pug without shouting in Mor Dhona forever.
The only difference between this and duty finder is that it's a bit more manual.

But the whole cross server thing is really not any good for coil. You're not making friends for very long and it's much harder coordinate.
You can't even leave and re-enter an instance with duty finder.

My suggestion:
Use the new tool in the next patch and make your pick up groups with little hassle.
Make a linkshell for anyone wanting to do coil but not on a specific schedule or such. A non-static conglomerate?

I agree the lockout should be for loot only. Not sure they'll lift that soon, but I'd like that.

[firepixiedarien]

If there was a "loot lockout" I would force my FC to level a second character, gear them out, then run 7 alts and 1 main for coil, and do this 8x a week, and be geared for every class for everyone on their main in just a few weeks (depending on drops).

Hey, just because some so-called "hardcore" players would do this, doesn't mean everyone would. You're not psychic, you're not a crappy player like me, you don't know what I would or wouldn't do. Get the hell outta here with your elitist negativity. Ignored.

[Gooner_iBluAirJGR]

I like both ideas. It would be nice if you could run coils more than once per week but could receive something cool like 10k gil per floor cleared instead of being able to speed farm armor. Would be fun.

[Klutz64]

Bump for social justice.

I'm with the OP. In fact, static party in my FC have left a sour taste in my mouth. It wasn't until a short time ago where we all (the few remaining members from the FC) were trying coil together, then someone in leadership decided to form a static and alienated the rest of the FC, which is about 5 of us anyways (that's how all the FC is now).

I'm not having fun anymore, which is one of the purpose I play the game, and that is to have fun.

I feel for you, but if that's the way your FC is operated, then maybe it's time to find another. This is the reason I actually like joining the smaller guilds in MMO communities. They may take a while to get to endgame content, but they won't leave their members high and dry because reasons.

[Doo]

Join a small fc, can't get things done, join an elite fc, full of douches. What to do oh what to do.

[Ri_ri]

If there was a "loot lockout" I would force my FC to level a second character, gear them out, then run 7 alts and 1 main for coil, and do this 8x a week, and be geared for every class for everyone on their main in just a few weeks (depending on drops). this would instantly break the game, not to mention the fact that it would require a ridiculous amount of time, but, that doesn't matter when progress is at stake. for a top end FC, they would do this, guaranteed.

the lockout is simply a way of saving players from themselves, and not forcing them to burn out on the content.

Makes me question the maturity of "hardcore raiders", and why should SE even bother cathering to them.

[IzumiRaito]

I agree with having coil on DF. The problem is players mentality that can be seen in titan HM df. "Someone makes one mistake? GTFO!" Flaming instead of trying to explain/improve. DF-ing hard content works only as long as players are not considering themselves "entitled to win it" without putting much effort first.
Features required:
- ability to restart instance with same party members after time runs out
- leave penalty equal to time left till end of instance (after using feature above this penalty is no more)
- auto afk kick that imposes leave penalty when triggered
- extreme punishment for any behaviour trying to make someone else leave. Permanent ban on df challenges on FIRST such criminal offense.


About lockouts, i think best option would be lockout per role. Progress is saved separately for ur tank jobs, dps jobs and healer jobs. That would be up to 3 raids per week for a player. Role lockout would take best use of the armoury system. Among the same role u can pick a job that is best suited for the encounter. Then have a new experience with entirely different role, also with possibility to pick one best suited for encounter. Now to prevent loot pooling, i thought of 2 solutions:

1. Greed button is disabled. Players can only loot items for job they are actually playing. Cant need on duplicates (ofc). But on the other hand, only items that can be "needed" by at least one party member can drop. If no item that may drop from a particular treasure chest can be "needed", nothing drops at all.

2. One player can only loot one item from particular turn. Although pooling would be somehow possible, but not too impactfull because of only 3 runs per week.

[MisakiSatomi]

I've said it again and again and i will say it once again. People have been beating Sastasha through turn 4 with df/pug. It won't be long until turn 5 also gets pugged.