The Solo disease?

[Leeloo]

Leeloo the problem with a skilled soloer in a party is there use to the techniques they have developed while soloing. those more often then not do not mesh that well with party play. Case in point archers. A solo archer is use to front loading there attack buffs into there first hit then binding the target and repeating the process untill the mob is dead.

That causes a bit of a wrinkle when the same technique is used during party play. leading to what i call the Rambonehead syndrome.

Yeah I can see that. To me that steps beyond whether someone prefers solo or party play & into just good vs bad players. I think the good soloer would be thinking of how things will be a little different in a party setting. Test the waters a bit and then settle in. The bad one is going to ignore that stuff and "do their thing".

Similarly, not all people who love grouping and rarely solo are going to be good players by default either. They can easily be hitching that free ride to cap available in this game.

It's a case by case thing.

[Xandre]

I....think....you need....to make....some friends......

That's what makes the world go round....

Try it, we won't bite.

Soling is great, but once you make some 'real' friends in game, you'll very rarely solo again.

I think soloists are just scared of groups. I used to be one.

Come here. .../hugs....

HUGS GODAMMIT

There is some truth to this.
/hug

[Shikaree]

I'm going to add something that I've experienced going between FFXI, WoW, and now FFXIV.

While I also enjoy a good solo, I actually liked FFXI's methods of partying up to accomplish your goals. This is from whether it's exp/meriting to going through story missions. This was the way to bond with others and find friends or that right group of people you can continue to experience the game with.

I went to WoW because eventually my life couldn't handle the wait time it took to find a party to gain experience on plus the time you needed to party if you waited that long. Soloing also wasn't a very tempting option back when I quit. Now WoW has a great soloing feature, with the need to group up only if you desire the best gear. Two problems, no accomplishment going through story content and you don't feel connections to the players you may or may not run across. Guild invites were more along the lines of noobs spamming the invite in your face or you spam the chat channel in a city. Get in guild, won't feel that connection between anyone else right away.

FFXIV feels between FFXI and WoW right now, with a higher push towards WoW's community feel. You don't have to group for much of anything, and the soloing leaves you feeling isolated from everyone else eventually. Maybe you might find someone you enjoyed talking to during a Behest gathering, but otherwise I almost feel the same finding a linkshell here as I was getting in a guild in WoW. The only comfort I have currently is that a lot of FFXIV players are also former FFXI players, so they have a better understanding on communication and growing as a community.

So I understand the point of the MMO part of a MMORPG, but the solo utility is so high at the moment I'm having trouble connecting or even finding a good linkshell. The last linkshells I've been in have either, as I said before, talk dirty too often or not enough (last one had no one talk commonly unless someone was looking to put together a leve party and that was about it!).

[thedevilsjester]

Crafters play solo do they not ?, so why should a battle class not be able to ?

Oh, nice, I hadn't thought of that one!

No, Jester... You're just missing the points I was trying to make.
[snip]
You were asking why people don't like soloers, basically...

I think you missed the point as I never asked this question. In fact most of your post addresses points that...well...I never really asked or tried to make, and your argument about single player offline RPG parties translating into multiplayer online parties, while written well, doesn't translate like you think it does.

I don't really have a problem with a game developer adding in a easy mode.

Easy mode? No one here is talking about easy mode, and soloing is far from easy mode. Even in a properly scaled down scenario, soloing in my experiance is much more difficult than partying with a well rounded party. A lot of extra strategy and care must be taken, for example if you are a Warrior, who is going to heal you? How will you survive without being healed? What strategy will you use? If you are a White Mage, who is going to Tank or DPS? How will you manage to deal enough damage to the mob before he squishes you? Soloing is far from easy mode.

That being said, I am aware that some developers, instead of using proper scaling techniques, just dumb down content across the board, and this is an absolute no no. As a soloist, I despise dumbed down content (and often skip over it), I want a challenge.

TDJ
Which is a point to the mmo, make friends to play with.

The point of an MMO? Who made these rules? I didn't agree to them. Did we have some kind of global vote on what an MMO is supposed to be, or did you just form an opinion based on your own preferred game style and assume that this is the way things should be?

Like leveling or group crafting. (like some one makes arrow heads which i make into arrows etc) And if That person says "no i play solo" it can be taken as an insult.

You, absolutely, misinterpret what playing solo is. Playing solo means that I do not party. That is it. Crafting, which I can do solo, which as pointed out by someone is a completely solo job, to provide LS or friends with materials or items, is still soloing. You can stretch the definition of solo to make soloists look as evil as you would like, but that doesn't change that soloists, in all my MMORPG experience, simply do not want to PvE in a party, that's it.

I don't agree that solo player should take 8 times more hours than a full party.

That's some weird logic.
[snip]
Each situation would need to be balanced to the player/s as would the reward.

At least someone understands the concept of scaling and equal effort for equal reward! There is no reason why your 4 hours in a party, are any more valuable than my 4 hours solo. If I put in the same amount of effort (and not simply with some dumbed down easy mode, but a proper scaled environment) I should get the same reward.

@Leeloo
Oh I like you more and more.

There is some truth to this.
/hug

Actually, posts like the one you quoted are the problem, not the solution. Too many people, some who even "claim" to have been soloists, like to make the statement that all soloists really wish they were groupers. It is as bad as saying all Hispanics (or any other racial group) secretly wish they were White. It is a horrible, not to mention completely wrong, judgement that my original post was attempting to shed light on.

[Randis]

i like to play both solo and in parties too but i think it is no ones business how i play the game.

[Xandre]

Actually, posts like the one you quoted are the problem, not the solution. Too many people, some who even "claim" to have been soloists, like to make the statement that all soloists really wish they were groupers. It is as bad as saying all Hispanics (or any other racial group) secretly wish they were White. It is a horrible, not to mention completely wrong, judgement that my original post was attempting to shed light on.

I said "Some truth."

Certainly there are other factors to consider, but I do believe that if you did or were to make a friend(s), someone more than just a player you casually talk to from time to time, then you'd want to spend time with them.

Also, the comparison you made is not a viable example to support your argument due to its extremity.

[thedevilsjester]

I said "Some truth."

Certainly there are other factors to consider, but I do believe that if you did or were to make a friend(s), someone more than just a player you casually talk to from time to time, then you'd want to spend time with them.

By spend time with...you mean have your virtual avatar near their virtual avatar linked by a virtual party mechanic? How does that equate to spending time with them? Isn't talking to them, both in text chat and voice chat on a regular basis, more social then the virtual proximity of your avatars? Really, how is forming a party with them "spending time with them"? If it were real life, yes having them in close proximity is leagues different than chatting with them on the phone, but that character in game, isnt really you, and the proximity is virtual (you are not really closer to them then you are when you are solo halfway across "the world"). I would think that those who party, and don't talk, voice or text, are less social than those who solo and chat all day with their in game and out of game friends (XFire is pretty good for this). How does wanting to form a group mechanic automatically make you social, and not wanting to, automatically makes you anti-social?

Also, the comparison you made is not a viable example to support your argument due to its extremity.

I disagree. You feel, because it doesn't really affect you, that it is an extreme comparison. From my side, being in the group that is regularly attacked, it is quite a fair comparison. One large group, who expresses their supposed superiority, believes that another large group wants to secretly be like them. (I should note, for the record, that I am not including "all groupers" in this, just the ones who express said sentiment) It is a valid comparison. The only area that the comparison falls short in, is that race cannot change, where as behaviour can, but it is the closest comparison I could find without comparing religions, and that will just get messy and I am sure no one wants the topic to start degrading into that!

@Griss
Yes you are absolutely right that someone experienced in soloing only will (typically) not make as good a partier as someone who has partied most of the game. The opposite is true as well though. Someone who is used to the party mechanic, is not going to be as good solo as they are used to a certain type of mechanic where there is a healer role, a tank role, a DPS role, etc... and when they are in a situation where they have to be all of these, if they are not used to it (like a soloer to a group) they will fail just as hard (of course, a benefit of them soloing is they only bring themselves down, not the whole party). This is just the nature of experience. If you intend to play in parties, you should play in them early so you get to know your party role, and if you intend to do a lot of soloing, you should do so early so you can get a feel for playing your character in its new role (and in the case of FFXIV, probably get some new skills...since as a soloist, Cure is nice, but Sacrifice is useless, etc...)

[Xandre]

I think you are complicating things.

I'm not a fan of typing large bodies of text so I'll just keep things short.

First off, no, I was not implying to be social you had to be standing right next to the other player.

Second, I understand the basic relationship of the comparison you made. That being said, you're bringing up issues of a larger scale that are going far beyond the original argument.

[thedevilsjester]

First off, no, I was not implying to be social you had to be standing right next to the other player.

Ok.

Second, I understand the basic relationship of the comparison you made. That being said, you're bringing up issues of a larger scale that are going far beyond the original argument.

There was no original argument, just my statement that all soloers do not secretly wish they were groupers. If you mean an argument brought up in one of the many replies, which one? I do not think the game needs changed, I do not think that all content should be soloable, I do not think the game should be made easier for soloists, but I do think that equal effort should provide equal reward (and that there are certain situations where you cannot scale down and still make the game make consistent sense). I do think you can be social, and not party, just like you can party and not be social. And I fully support systems that allow soloing but encourage grouping. Other than that, I just simply want people to know that for some of us, we are soloists and we are proud. I wouldn't have it any other way.

[FilthyDisco]

If you want to play a solo game, play an offline game.