The Solo disease?

[thedevilsjester]

"I stated that me, and other soloists, solo because we enjoy it" your opinion is not the opinion of every "soloist"

Where did I use the term EVERY? Where? I said "Me, and other soloists" I didn't say "Me and all other soloists". I included me, and at least two more soloists (it was, after all, plural), and since I know more than two, a lot more, that share my view point on this topic, it is indeed a true statement and does not, as you claim, attempting to represent soloists as a entire group. If you read all of my posts, I often make note of the fact that it is soloists I know, or friends who play MMORPG's too, or mention that I do not talk for every soloist out there. Read them, find them, you will see. In fact, in the very post you quote from I say "(at least a lot of us, I cannot speak for everyone)" I make it very clear that I do not represent all soloists.

using your same argumentative tactics above Opinion: a personal view, attitude, or appraisal. Stating that you and a group of people (which is an inference in and of itself) are soloists and that you enjoy final fantasy for is solo content and solo possibilities is in and of it self a view or opinion, thus making your post a opinion piece.

The definition of the word opinion does not change the fact that it is not an opinion. I solo because I enjoy it. That is a fact. I enjoy playing solo. Again, a fact. Soloing is fun. Opinion (its my own personal view). Do you see the difference? On one you can argue a counter point, saying that soloing isn't fun, and neither of us is right or wrong, thus it is an opinion. The other, you cannot argue that I do not enjoy soloing (because I do) so there can be no dissension about what I personally favor or do not. It is a subtle yet crucial difference that separates an opinion from a statement of fact. (its all in the presenting).

but as far as content goes, almost everything IS solo-able in this game.

No one is debating that. The game is very solo friendly (as I mention in my OP). No one is arguing (in this thread) that anything should be changed, or is not friendly to soloists, or anything remotely of that nature.

For those just joining us, I do not think that the game should be changed. I do not think it needs anything done to it, or that it doesn't present reasonable opportunities to solo. I do not take the stance that soloing is better than grouping, just that I personally enjoy soloing, and many soloists have agreed with me that they enjoy soloing as well, we (I do not speak for all) do not all do it as penance, or because we do not have enough time, or because we cannot find a group, or because we are anti-social, we just like to solo. I am sure there are those who do solo only because they are short on time, or any of the other reasons listed here, and its great that FFXIV allows for this type of content, but some of us like to solo because we find it an enjoyable experience. That is it. In a nutshell. Please, in future posts, do not assume that all soloists secretly want to be in group play, that is all I hope to accomplish with this post, simply to inform.

[Bled]

Where did I use the term EVERY? Where? I said "Me, and other soloists" I didn't say "Me and all other soloists". I included me, and at least two more soloists (it was, after all, plural), and since I know more than two, a lot more, that share my view point on this topic, it is indeed a true statement and does not, as you claim, attempting to represent soloists as a entire group. If you read all of my posts, I often make note of the fact that it is soloists I know, or friends who play MMORPG's too, or mention that I do not talk for every soloist out there. Read them, find them, you will see.




The definition of the word opinion does not change the fact that it is not an opinion. I solo because I enjoy it. That is a fact. I enjoy playing solo. Again, a fact. Soloing is fun. Opinion. Do you see the difference? On one you can argue a counter point, saying that soloing isn't fun, and neither of us is right or wrong, thus it is an opinion. The other, you cannot argue that I do not enjoy soloing (because I do) so there can be no dissension about what I personally favor or do not.




No one is debating that. The game is very solo friendly (as I mention in my OP). No one is arguing (in this thread) that anything should be changed, or is not friendly to soloists, or anything remotely of that nature.

The statement "I like to solo" is in FACT an opinion. I like to play soccer well guess what there are people the don't like to play soccer so whats that? it makes them two different views thus two different opinions, even though me liking to play soccer is a fact. The fact that you like something dose not dismiss the underlying premise that it is still a view of yours and an opinion.

And even if what you were stating was true why post something nonconstructive such as "i enjoy to play solo" (which is not all of what your post was about) i fail to see the relevance of a post that is as you said "un-discussable", even though you called your statement a "rant" which implies an argument (discussion), which implies two sides, which implies OPINIONS.

Edit: Yes i cant disprove the statement "I solo because I enjoy it" but the rest of your post delves outside of that one statement.

Edit: Argument and Discussion are used interchangeably.

Edit: Yes you never said all soloists but your tone throughout your posts gets awfully close to that, especially when you break yourself and others into two categories (Soloist and Grouper) and turn into the "soloists" spokes person. I too disagreed with Kilta's post but man you were all over that like you were the voice of soloers everywhere.

[NoMX]

First, I'd like to point out that most of the big single player Japanese RPG's (Such as the Final Fantasy franchise) aren't truly "solo" anyways. You usually control multiple characters in a party. Sure, there is only one PERSON playing the game, but there is not usually only one CHARACTER taking on these huge, destructive beasts to ultimately save the world. In an MMO, you're playing ONE of these characters in the party, while other people are playing the others compared to single player games where you play 3-5 individual characters at once to fight the same monsters.

In my opinion it completely ruins the game for one person to be able to kill the roughest, toughest monster in the game that the lore describes as being a badass to the ultimate degree. It's a task for a group, and should never be allowed to be done solo. If you reeeeally want a solo MMO, go play runescape. Unless they changed it in the last couple of years, there is no such thing as partying in that game and you do everything alone, aside from trading. It's just a social single-player game. It sucks... but yea. That's the sort of game you're describing.

Content in an MMO should never be made 100% scalable. Sure, there are certain situations where it's ok. We have it in leves, where you can manually scale them to meet your groups skill and size, but for NM's that's downright stupid. NM's should always be made with the intent of being killed in a group. It's almost always this way for every game. They're made to be killed by a group, though skilled soloists usually find a way to beat some of them anyways. This is fine, IMO, so long as it's not a monster thats meant to be able to completely annihilate any one single adventurer alone based off the lore around it.

As for desirable loot dropping monsters, plain and simple, casual players and soloists alike should not be able to obtain the best gear as easily as a hardcore player can. I'm not saying they SHOULDN'T be able to eventually obtain these items, just that in a game meant for grouping, there should be a great benefit to actually... Grouping. If everything was handed to you with ease on a silver platter because they made all the best gear obtainable through soloing, then the game would have zero challenge or ability to retain mine, nor most people's interest for more than a quick second.

[thedevilsjester]

The statement "I like to solo" is in FACT an opinion. I like to play soccer well guess what there are people the don't like to play soccer so whats that? it makes them two different views thus two different opinions, even though me liking to play soccer is a fact. The fact that you like something dose not dismiss the underlying premise that it is still a view of yours and an opinion.

And even if what you were stating was true why post something nonconstructive such as "i enjoy to play solo" (which is not all of what your post was about) i fail to see the relevance of a post that is as you said "un-discussable", even though you called your statement a "rant" which implies an argument (discussion), which implies two sides, which implies OPINIONS.

Edit: Yes i cant disprove the statement "I solo because I enjoy it" but the rest of your post delves outside of that one statement.

Edit: Argument and Discussions are used interchangeably.

I see by your Edits that you do understand my point of fact. A rant or a vent, these neither imply discussion or opinion. They are simply a method by which someone...well vents. Lets out their frustrations. That is it. I tried to do so in a constructive manner by which I could shed some light on some reasons that soloists choose to solo, so that in the future, maybe, the cause of my frustration could be avoided. Discussions about that were expected, maybe even questions about why I enjoy soloing, but when a large portion of the posts are about how the game shouldn't be changed to cater more to soloists, or that I should go play another game if I want to demand the game be more solo friendly, (or, hell, the post right above this one) posts that very clearly do not have any relevance to my OP (or, really, any of my posts, since I say time and again that FFXIV doesn't need to change.) then it has most definitely been derailed.

In my opinion it completely ruins the game for one person to be able to kill the roughest, toughest monster in the game that the lore describes as being a badass to the ultimate degree.

I do not know who you are talking to, but not a single person in this thread has ever suggested that the game needs to change, and in fact I even go so far as to talk about this very thing (in your quote) and say that there are times when it makes absolutely no sense to make something soloable (Like killing Bahumut), which is exactly the point you are trying to make...if you are just wanting to preach to the choir, more power to you, but nobody (in this thread) is really arguing against having some content that is just not soloable by its very nature.

[Bled]

I see by your Edits that you do understand my point of fact. A rant or a vent, these neither imply discussion or opinion. They are simply a method by which someone...well vents. Lets out their frustrations. That is it. I tried to do so in a constructive manner by which I could shed some light on some reasons that soloists choose to solo, so that in the future, maybe, the cause of my frustration could be avoided. Discussions about that were expected, maybe even questions about why I enjoy soloing, but when a large portion of the posts are about how the game shouldn't be changed to cater more to soloists, or that I should go play another game if I want to demand the game be more solo friendly, (or, hell, the post right above this one) posts that very clearly do not have any relevance to my OP (or, really, any of my posts, since I say time and again that FFXIV doesn't need to change.) then it has most definitely been derailed.


I do not know who you are talking to, but not a single person in this thread has ever suggested that the game needs to change, and in fact I even go so far as to talk about this very thing (in your quote) and say that there are times when it makes absolutely no sense to make something soloable (Like killing Bahumut), which is exactly the point you are trying to make...if you are just wanting to preach to the choir, more power to you, but nobody (in this thread) is really arguing against having some content that is just not soloable by its very nature.

If i had known what you had meant in the first place i would have never posted in this thread. Not just yourself but a good number of people on these forums need to be a lot more clear in there OP's. With the animosity in these forums and the various threads that are attempting to lump everyone into different categories of players so that they can claim what needs to be implemented into the game, you need to be as clear as possible in posts, so as not to be confused. You can do what ever you want, however I would suggest against claiming yourself a part of a "group" aka "soloist" and then arbitrarily listing off reasons you enjoy soloing, i cant believe that your surprised at the comments you received in response. By posting in the manner that you did you left a great big gaping window for people to miss interpret your point. When posting in forums you need to clearly lay out the direction in which you want to direct a discussion and not mislead people.

Personally i would have made the thread read "ask a person who likes soloing any question". that way there is no room for people to miss interpret the direction of your post. However this is all assuming that you truly care about posting and constructive discussions.

Edit: A rant is a speech or text that does not present a calm argument; rather, it is typically an enthusiastic speech or talk or lecture on an idea or view. That is what a rant is and you need to mean what you say and say what you mean. By stating that you were on a rant you implied an argument (discussion) which is coupled by opinions.

I know the elements of a discussion which i know you were looking for in your OP -_-

[NoMX]

No, Jester... You're just missing the points I was trying to make.

My first paragraph was eluding to the fact that all these single player RPG's we're all familiar with have always had us forming groups of like-minded individuals who got stronger over time. Their goal is always to overcome an overwelmingly powerful foe, but as a team working together through all the obstacles before them they become strong enough to put up a fight. The MMO part in "MMORPG" to me means that each player in your party is played by a different person, while in your single player RPG's one player controls them all. In both game types you have big groups of people all going out and battling evil. The difference is, soloing in an MMO takes away that entire feel. It's no longer about a group of people working together to progress in the story and such... It's some jack ass stabbing dodos in a corner by himself for 10 hours a day.

If you took the same person and had him solo level 1 until cap on any major MMO of your choice that possess endgame content he is pretty much useless for anything besides soloing. Now, if you take the same person and have him group up the whole time, then he will know how his role is supposed to be filled in a party situation. He will be a much better endgame player.

Most skills people obtain while soloing do NOT transfer over to group play. For example, someone who's done nothing but solo knows absolutely nothing about managing their hate on the game, as it's an entirely nonexistent concept to them. You also use entirely different skills as a soloer than any group player would. For example, if a gladiator was soloing it'd be absolutely stupid for them to have provoke or wardrum on their bar. Wasted points... Just like it'd be stupid for a THM to waste spots on contagion or punishing barbs in a group, seeing as they will never be in range of an NM's attacks in a group situation (providing they're healing/debuffing/dd'ing and not tanking).

My point is... During the leveling up process, people should be encouraged to group. Soloers are at a huge disadvantage when they do group, because they rarely know what's expected of them. Sure, they can learn once they hit 50, but they'll already be behind the curve for group play at that point... They could have just partied half the time and learned it all before then, and avoid potentially stupid mistakes.


You were asking why people don't like soloers, basically... This is my reasoning. They more often than not lack the skills to perform adequately in a group because they spend all their time alone. When you have one of these people join you for a fight... It becomes very annoying, very fast. I don't want to waste my time wiping to what should be an easy fight because someone chose to never learn how the game works in group mode.

[Eldaena]

You were asking why people don't like soloers, basically... This is my reasoning. They more often than not lack the skills to perform adequately in a group because they spend all their time alone. When you have one of these people join you for a fight... It becomes very annoying, very fast. I don't want to waste my time wiping to what should be an easy fight because someone chose to never learn how the game works in group mode.

That is a huge assumption. This means you are guilty of the stereotyping that this whole thread is about.

Edit: Just because a few 'soloers' you have played with weren't up to par with some of your elitist views, doesn't mean all solo players tossed into a group situation would behave the same way.

[Bled]

That is a huge assumption. This means you are guilty of the stereotyping that this whole thread is about.

Edit: Just because a few 'soloers' you have played with weren't up to par with some of your elitist views, doesn't mean all solo players tossed into a group situation would behave the same way.

for the love of god, we have the label soloist being thrown around can we please keep elitist out, labels like these do nothing but hold games and their communities back.

[Eldaena]

for the love of god, we have the label soloist being thrown around can we please keep elitist out, labels like these do nothing but hold games and their communities back.

I'm sorry that my term caused you to feel that you must post in retort, but when one person believes that the way they do things in a game, or how they feel about others in a game, is the right way and the only way, that feels pretty elitist to me.

He is saying that solo players are almost always bad at playing in groups.

How does he know this?

Has he played with most solo players in this game? Seriously doubtful considering they do not want to party with him or seemingly anyone. He is assuming.

[Bled]

I'm sorry that my term caused you to feel that you must post in retort, but when one person believes that the way they do things in a game, or how they feel about others in a game, is the right way and the only way, that feels pretty elitist to me.

He is saying that solo players are almost always bad at playing in groups.

How does he know this?

Has he played with most solo players in this game? Seriously doubtful considering they do not want to party with him or seemingly anyone. He is assuming.

Don't insult me in thinking that i don't know what an elitist is... By creating a derogatory label such as elitist you only further the very problem you are attempting to label (which has no relevance). Ever hear of the saying "treat a person like a animal long enough and he will become an animal", that is the most basic way of describing labeling theory. You are part of the problem so stop flinging these stupid labels around!

Edit: Your not the only person, the whole community has adopted this mentality and its turned these threads to crap!