[[ Why do we miss the old FFXI community ]] What made it special ??

[SynMaris]

/thread.

We can all go home now, this person wins.

[Aegis]

If you really wanted to see toxic, you needed to be at the competitive end of content, particularly endgame. People organizing Dynamis shells and splitting with millions of gil worth of currency, LS leaders raiding banks, having to have an extra party at fafhoggs spawn to deal with repeated mpk attempts with darters if you got claim, rampant bot use, rival shells trying to steal your pop any way they could... It was at least as disgusting as anything i have seen in this game, and often moreso. One thing that will always stick with me and the reason why I will always scoff at anyone saying that FFXIs community was so much better; my LS was in the process of killing Fafnir, while a rival LS taunted us and were trying to steal claim. my LS leader said something along the lines you guys might want to watch it we already called a GM, and a member of the other LS said he might want to watch as he skull-****ed his mother.

This community is no better, and certainly no worse.

The thing with land kings and other HNM is that while it certainly was competitive and short-tempered, it also only affected a couple of dozen players per server. The vast, vast majority of players never even went into Dragon's Aery.

As for endgame, the linkshells on each server would actually set up rotas for when each would go into Dynamis - Xarc or Dynamis - Beau. Can you even imagine that kind of gentleman's agreement in XIV?

Internal linkshell dramas like bank raiding or drop favouritism isn't in my opinion a community issue, it was an LS issue. It didn't affect anyone outside the LS and there advice then was simply 'find a linkshell with decent leaders'.

In XIV I've seen tanks shout at healers/DPS to 'Die. Just go outside and suck on a tailpipe. Seriously', the players were rarely even underperforming. You know what you would get if you underperfomed in a levelling party in XI? Some advice, maybe some free food. If you still didn't learn, that person might put you at the bottom of their personal invite list if they saw you seeking again. Oh, the horror.

See also: Tanks/Healers withdrawing from DF looking for in progress groups that are past the demon wall. Personal insults if you can't manage a speed run. Mercshells sabotaging DF Titans to drum up business. People dropping from Ifrit because no PLDs/SMNs/BLMs etc. Ilevel 90 requirements for entry endgame raids. People AFK'ing CM runs. New players being stuck for days at Westwind/NM primals because no-one will stop to help them.

The elitist part of XI affected only a tiny percentage of the community, who were all more or less equally to blame (they gave as good as they got). The toxic community in XIV ARR assaults you as soon as you log in until you've gritted your teeth through your Coil/myth for that week and logged out.

[Doo]

Good post Aegis. FFXIV is so bad that Yoshi is offering incentives to be friendly to each other. (Vote for your most helpful/friendly person)

[Andrien]

The thing with land kings and other HNM is that while it certainly was competitive and short-tempered, it also only affected a couple of dozen players per server. The vast, vast majority of players never even went into Dragon's Aery.

Not all servers are alike.

As for endgame, the linkshells on each server would actually set up rotas for when each would go into Dynamis - Xarc or Dynamis - Beau. Can you even imagine that kind of gentleman's agreement in XIV?

The community was forced to do this on their own because of SE lack of creating separate servers for Dynamis. I don't see the point you're trying make here because most of the time if you can't do the Dynamis run you want to do you either do something else or the event is canceled.

Internal linkshell dramas like bank raiding or drop favouritism isn't in my opinion a community issue, it was an LS issue. It didn't affect anyone outside the LS and there advice then was simply 'find a linkshell with decent leaders'.

In XIV I've seen tanks shout at healers/DPS to 'Die. Just go outside and suck on a tailpipe. Seriously', the players were rarely even underperforming. You know what you would get if you underperfomed in a levelling party in XI? Some advice, maybe some free food. If you still didn't learn, that person might put you at the bottom of their personal invite list if they saw you seeking again. Oh, the horror.

In FFXI there is a lot of "JP only PT", a race to get the best exp/merit camping spot, no one wanted PLD, DRG, BLM, or PUP. Not mention everyone and their mommy wanted a BRD and RDM in the PT or else no PT. I guess its the same crap but different flavor?

See also: Tanks/Healers withdrawing from DF looking for in progress groups that are past the demon wall. Personal insults if you can't manage a speed run. Mercshells sabotaging DF Titans to drum up business. People dropping from Ifrit because no PLDs/SMNs/BLMs etc. Ilevel 90 requirements for entry endgame raids. People AFK'ing CM runs. New players being stuck for days at Westwind/NM primals because no-one will stop to help them.

The devs are aware of this and are working on ways to counter these malicious acts.

The elitist part of XI affected only a tiny percentage of the community, who were all more or less equally to blame (they gave as good as they got). The toxic community in XIV ARR assaults you as soon as you log in until you've gritted your teeth through your Coil/myth for that week and logged out.

The elitist part of XI affected all the end game content in the game because it is the only thing to do in that game besides story missions, and leveling up.

What I'm trying to point out here is that FFXI is not a holy grail as to what some people are trying to make others believe. It has a lot of faults, and it had a long time to adapt to the changing times.

[Aedra]

I miss my entire life is a small square box on the bottom right corner.
I miss reading combat log to cast -na spell before ppl get complaining.
I miss 60 macros on my shortcut for -na/-bar/cure spell and increase to 80 after /SCH.
I miss the moment of joy for the first time I heard the music of engaged battle when FFXI 1st add this.
I miss selling stacks of Colibri Beak after EXP/Merit Party @ Bhaflau Thickets.

I miss going entire nights without getting an exp party
I miss having to solo on BLM after ToAU came out because no one would invite one.
I miss parties not being formed because there was no rdm or brd.
I miss it taking 30-45 minutes to get ppl together to do anything, "hang on I need to go to my MH"

You forgot no one want PLD in a merit party.

[Aegis]

Couple of dozens? I guess you never been to Bismarck.

No, Ifrit server.

The community was forced to do this on their own because of SE lack of creating separate servers for Dynamis. I don't see the point you're trying make here because most of the time if you can't do the Dynamis run you want to do you either do something else or the event is canceled.

That they could have been competitive and screwed each other over, but instead they worked out an equitable system between themselves so that everyone got a turn at a congested event. That's an example of an excellent, functioning community, was my point.

In FFXI there is a lot of "JP only PT", a race to get the best exp/merit camping spot, no one wanted PLD, DRG, BLM, or PUP. Not mention everyone and their mommy wanted a BRD and RDM in the PT or else no PT. I guess its the same crap but different flavor?

Well, JP/En only or whatever exists even more in this game. Not even did they split up the servers, they also gave people the option to choose never to play with JP/EN/DE/FR through the Duty Finder options. As far as camp compeition went; it was very heavily frowned on to camp over other parties so people found alternate camps. Remember sending people to scout Bhaflau (or was it Wajaom?) to see if any of the Colibri parties were clear? Or the Puk/Mam/Dragon camp? If they weren't clear, people didn't go.

Party composition favouritism is an area I kind of agree with you on, having said that, my first job was DRK, followed by THF and BLU none of which were FOTM in the entire time I was playing and I kept up with my friends just fine. Probably because (perhaps I flatter myself here) I built up a reputation as a solid party member, always using food, keeping gear up to date etc. Being able to build up a reputation as competent was one of the benefits of having a functioning community.

The devs are aware of this and are working on ways to counter these malicious acts.

Which will be great if/when it ever happens. However, you are relying on the devs to step in and sort out squabbles on an ad-hoc basis because the design of the game doesn't discourage these behaviours and players currently feel unaccountable for their actions to the wider community.

I am curious though; how do you think the devs will sort people dropping from Ifrit because there's no BLM/SMN in pt?

The elitist part of XI affected all the end game content in the game because it is the only thing to do in that game besides story missions, and leveling up.

I certainly never saw it in 4 years of endgame in Sky/Sea/Ein/Nyzul/Dyna/Salvage. In fact, the memory that stays with me the most strongly were times when players who willingly gave up lots on gear they needed to help gear the less well-geared members out in dynamis. And a THF not lotting on Homam pants because they were more useful to the PLD even though the Thief had lotting priority. Even in Sky there was a spirit of friendly competition, /cheering on other linkshells when they got claim before you (while preparing to take claim if they wiped).

I remember when camping Charybdis (after getting ToD from a competitor), losing claim to a NIN+BRD duo, /cheering them as they fought, taking claim when they wiped after only knocking Charby down to 85%. Did they rez, come back and cuss me out as I killed Charby? No they /cheered as I fought too.

I remember the JP player who switched to 75 WHM after dunes exp party and got all of us our magicked skulls.

I remember the NA player who lent me a Bronze Bed to start the mog-house quests and taught me about the secret exit quests.

I remember the NA players who would donate hours of their time to help complete strangers through Prommies just to help them get tavnazia access.

I remember my linkshell helping me through Genkais, AF fights, attestation farming etc and me paying it forward to newer members of the shell.

Now I'm not saying my experience is any more or less typical than yours, but when someone tells me XI had a toxic community it absolutely jars with what I've seen. When someone tells me XI's community was the best they have ever experienced they almost always have stories similar to mine.

Late Edit: I just remembered another good community thing from XI which I know existed across servers: The BST code.

BST used to share a lot of camp sites near where parties used to exp (sometimes the same site even). The code was simply that you would put where you were and what you were fighting in your /seacom and whether you were amenable to grouping up. That way, when parties or other BSTs /sea the area (remember doing that so you didn't overcamp people? Good times) they knew whether or not the camp would be free and if they could party up with the BST if they were free. Overcamping was strictly verboten.

[Kyriea]

FFXIV combat mechanics with XI endgame, XIV graphics, remove cross-server duty finder and keep it server specific. XI's gear/stat system with XIV's materia and the rest as it is already, that would be my ideal game. Unfortunately it might as well be a different game so it will never happen, I just hope they look to XI when it comes to endgame, what we have now has gotten stale incredibly quick even for a new game.

Regardless of what anyone says XI had one of the better communities. No MMO will ever have a "great" community because anonymity means anyone can be a tool and get away with it, so they are. However knowing that it's incredibly unlikely you'll ever see party members again in XIV, people don't care about reputation. If it meant being known as a tool and rarely invited to parties people would be more inclined to be polite, even if it was fake. I know I'd take fake polite people over the insufferable jerks you find in XIV any day.

While the game is partly to blame for the community being the way it is, a lot of it comes down to people knowing they can sit behind their computer screen, insult the world and get away with it. It's a very childish nature but a lot of people seem to be that way and nobody can argue it. I personally feel that a big community is not always a better community and that's why XI was good. Naturally the more people around you, the more chance there is you'll find a jerk so XI having a smaller and more tight-knit community made it less likely.

[Machazareel]

In fact, the memory that stays with me the most strongly were times when players who willingly gave up lots on gear they needed to help gear the less well-geared members out in dynamis. And a THF not lotting on Homam pants because they were more useful to the PLD even though the Thief had lotting priority.

Word. I gave up a Ridill. A fucking Ridill, to a WAR who was in my linkshell. In hindsight it was a bad move, though, because he quit the game a month later, haha.

[Amberion]

What does not wanting certain jobs for exp parties have to do with bad community? It's not like they had anything against the player.

[Delorean]

i don't think your community really went anywhere

i mean. people always talk shit about world of warcraft's community and how everyone in that game acts like a douchebag. but if you played the game on an rp server or something, the type of people you encounter would be very different compared to the types you would encounter on a highly populated pvp server.

point is, ffxi wasn't popular. ffxiv is popular. final fantasy is a popular franchise, a revamp of a game so bad that it had to be taken down and remade, but still retains a lot of the great things about oldschool MMOs that made them great while mixing in modern systems is a pretty damn good selling point for a game if you ask me.

the game attracted a lot of players from different games that have, i guess, a different "game culture".

your community didn't go anywhere. it's just being overshadowed.