[[ Why do we miss the old FFXI community ]] What made it special ??

[Kazamoto]

Pay attention to most threads concerning Binding Coil of Bahamut and you will see a lot of the same things going on here. Some classes through no fault of their own are already struggling to advance without their static raid groups because people discriminate based on what they think they know about someone else.

This is a very valid concern, but when you speak about class discrimination, you must also know, my favorite class in FFXI is Puppet Master. Though I often went to runs as a Paladin or Mkriss dark knight.

When people compare your parse to another players without adding the damage from the puppet, then you can complain about discrimination.

I think the problem behind all of this is people want it both ways.

They want everyone else to have optimal gear, and the optimal classes for every event. But they also want to be the snowflake that gets to do what ever they want.

There was a post earlier here in general by someone threatening to unsub the game because he couldn't find a tank for lowbie dungeons.

He felt he should not have to level a tank to take part in content.
But on the other side.
Does that mean someone else should have to level a tank so he can enjoy content?

LOL "rude or illiterate" "Perhaps they deserved this treatment" plus more than suggesting that anyone that disagrees with you is toxic. It's funny. The fact that you don't think that's ad hominem betrays your own passive-aggressive approach. And really shows that you were one of the problems within the XI community that we're talking about. You pretend to be civil and nice on the outside, but you clearly are a complete doucher.

So, right back atcha. You prove exactly what we've been saying. The XI community had MANY people who put on a pretentious, self-righteous, "civil" exterior while being truly nasty towards those whom you don't particularly like, and an elitist ass to those whom you felt didn't deserve your attention.

I do apologize if I have been anything but polite, it is not my intention to be perceived as self-righteous or pretentious.

But I also understand in the day and age, it the realm of white-knights and tolls, trying to have a calm level headed conversation can be problematic.

And again, sorry if I have been an 'elitist ass' but I am truly enjoying this conversation.

[Shyluv]

It also mattered what server you were on. Before the merge, Shiva was generally a very chill server. I was a helpful WHM, so I was in many different linkshells. Then I moved to gilga and got into HNM. Gilga was actually pretty chill as well. Then I moved with that ls to Phoenix, and things were very different on that server. Eventually the friends I was closest to got tired of the game. Without them I was miserable on Phoenix. So I went back to Shiva and things were exactly as I remembered. Then came the merge and the Shiva JP were always defending NA players against the merged JP. And the NA players gradually began to start having silly demands and before too long it became almost like how it is in this game now.

[Doo]

I am currently in a wp group with all players fake afking for like 20mins or so now.

[Orsnoire]

I am currently in a wp group with all players fake afking for like 20mins or so now.

And this is better how exactly than people ragequitting after a single attempt at a ZM boss (such as the one through Ugly-pie), or the 5-2 lich fight, or the Shadow Lord fight, or suddenly "DC"ing at the top of the towers in Promyvions, or a RDM MPKing his own party because they're not doing what he said, or a BLM who goes AFK for 40+ mins in a dunes/CN/Oubliette/Yuhtunga/Yhoator/etc party?

Yeah, that same kind of ignorant crap happened in XI too.

[Doo]

Yeah, that same kind of ignorant crap happened in XI too.

Whm finally decided to leave with 17 mins left. Never experienced any of the type of things you described in ffxi, I'm sure it happened just not as frequent. FFXIV feels like it's full of players with bad manners honestly.

[Cailae]

I think a lot of the rose-colored glasses come from people that never or rarely saw the worst of the worst that FFXI had to offer. Most people in FFXI stuck to the level treadmill. In there you might run into the occasional princess BRD who would bail on a party that wasn't performing to their demands, or maybe getting booted as a DRG for not having a Scorpion Harness yet, some elitist mentality that seeped down.

If you really wanted to see toxic, you needed to be at the competitive end of content, particularly endgame. People organizing Dynamis shells and splitting with millions of gil worth of currency, LS leaders raiding banks, having to have an extra party at fafhoggs spawn to deal with repeated mpk attempts with darters if you got claim, rampant bot use, rival shells trying to steal your pop any way they could... It was at least as disgusting as anything i have seen in this game, and often moreso. One thing that will always stick with me and the reason why I will always scoff at anyone saying that FFXIs community was so much better; my LS was in the process of killing Fafnir, while a rival LS taunted us and were trying to steal claim. my LS leader said something along the lines you guys might want to watch it we already called a GM, and a member of the other LS said he might want to watch as he skull-****ed his mother.

This community is no better, and certainly no worse.

The big thing about XIV is that with the treadmill so short, the hardcore and the not hardcore are colliding far more than they did in older MMOs, and the mentality is coming as a shock to a lot of people.

[Seig345]

People talk about how the game forced you to take your time, so 'everyone' did. The thing is, XI's 'everyone' isn't nearly as high of a number as XIV ARR's, at any point in time. The game forced you to join a party to make any sort of exp progress. It was such a slow grind that people wanted to minimize the time as much as possible by requiring everyone be completely up to snuff at all times on gear, level, subjob, etc. My favorite job was Whm, but that meant I had to also play Blm whether I liked it or not.

Well, at least spells were automatically unlocked for free as I leveled up right? Oh, wait, had to spend a ton of gil on most of them, once I actually FOUND them, and on others I had to go on some epic quest that required a group of people who could be bothered to tag along AND happened to have time tables that matched up with mine. Not just for Whm, but I had to do the same for Blm despite not even wanting to PLAY blm. Joining a linkshell was fine and dandy but even then you had to hope you could find one with time tables that matched up with yours to get anything done, and even then odds are you were having to wait until a specific day to attempt anything other than the level grind.

I'm fine with 'earning' stuff in a game, and having to play with others to progress, but the game didn't make that easy if the community felt it was necessary to allow for absolutely 0 slack (in a GAME). The game forced you to take your time, but nobody seemed to want to. In the end, 'everyone did' because everyone else who didn't/couldn't, weren't playing the game.

I forgot to mention that in FFXIV, you still see this, but it doesn't hit until endgame. Yoshi-P said 'the game doesn't start until lvl 50', and he was right, once you hit 50, that's when you're at the mercy of people willing to come down from their high mountaintop to help the plebes get anything done.

How is that any different than ARR? If you don't want to be a gimp MNK, you have to level lancer. If you don't want to be a gimp WHM, you have to level for Swift Cast. Etc etc. Do you have to? No, but good luck getting into Coil groups with a gimped character.

Yeah I see none of this in ffxiv currently.

My point wasn't that FFXIV is any better, my point is that FFXI certainly wasn't. We have a larger group of people playing because the leveling treadmill's been made solo-friendly. I'd say that and the DF are improvements, but by no means was I trying to say that the game isn't suffering from the same issues at end-game.

[Noahlimits]

My favorite job was Whm, but that meant I had to also play Blm whether I liked it or not.

How is that any different than ARR? If you don't want to be a gimp MNK, you have to level lancer. If you don't want to be a gimp WHM, you have to level for Swift Cast. Etc etc. Do you have to? No, but good luck getting into Coil groups with a gimped character.

[Doo]

It was such a slow grind that people wanted to minimize the time as much as possible by requiring everyone be completely up to snuff at all times on gear, level, subjob, etc. My favorite job was Whm, but that meant I had to also play Blm whether I liked it or not.

Yeah I see none of this in ffxiv currently.

[Magis]

I found the ARR community great, though I was partying on a JP server. However from threads and comments of groups at lvl 50... I heard the game becomes really toxic. Maybe that was the case with FFXI too (never got to 75) but I met the nicest people in parties as well as the linkshell I was in. As others said, I think it has to do with the game forcing people to cooperate as well as giving consequences to being a jackass.