DD Nerfed

[ChickensEvil]

For the record, questing doesn't make you learn to play your class any better than FATE grinding, because you are just learning how best to SOLO content. Solo gameplay is a completely different dynamic than group gameplay. So the only thing that would potentially "teach" people how to play the game correctly for group play would be dungeon leveling... only problem with that, you have classes like DRG and PLD that COMPLETELY change how "best" to play them between 30 to 50. a DRG goes from like a 3 button rotation, up through like 45, to an immediate change of 27 button rotation at 50. What did playing from 1 to 45 get you? how to push 3 buttons... YAY! Even the "simple" BLM is a completely different class at around 45-ish when you finally get both Bliz 3 and Fire 3 and unlock Umbral/Astral 3. So please, tell me more about how you "learn to play the class" from 1 to 45...

"Dungeons make you a better group player" - Come again? well, lets see here, a good BLM knows that they can generally AOE sleep things, fat lot of good that does you up until 36 when you finally can AOE sleep. So even your CC is a completely different dynamic for the first 2/3's of the game. But we are "learning"... Nevermind that Sleep is completely unnecessary/worthless in BC... but you know, "learning". So a dungeon would teach a BLM how to burn stuff down until 36, when he would learn to sleep things, until 50 when he would go back to just burning stuff down... Hey, if you shoot a fireball at that thing over there, it does damage! Hurray for "learning"!

Pro Tip: The actual fastest way to level is (and has been like this in just about every other game) mob grinding. Get a Full Party, with a tank, a healer or two, and the rest as much AOE as possible, chain pulling mobs in a zone at about +5 levels to your own and you will hit 50 faster than any other form of leveling (and you will actually make some money in the process because of mob item drops)

[divel987]

That's awesome. They need to nerf more FATES. Maybe bad players will learn how to actually play the game, instead of FATE grinding to 50 and then wondering why they are so awful at end game.

Hey guys you have a really good point with the FATES. I think its way too easy to gain exp from FATES. Maybe just make it a little more difficult to get that much from a single FATE. The game is awsome just wish it took a lil more, to get the benefits from FATES.

[Laryndra]

Nerfing fates wont magically make bad players better.

[Eightbit]

Nerfing fates wont magically make bad players better.

No but if they are running more dungeons they will ideally see that they do suck earlier on and attempt to fix it. Some of the low level duty finder dungeons are more difficult than the level 50 stuff we have.

[Reiterpallasch]

No but if they are running more dungeons they will ideally see that they do suck earlier on and attempt to fix it. Some of the low level duty finder dungeons are more difficult than the level 50 stuff we have.

That's what we want, terrible players flooding into all of the dungeons from 15 to 50.

[Terius]

Nerfing fates wont magically make bad players better.

No but maybe one or two dungeon runs will get it into that thick THM's skull that he should attack the tanks target. :P

[ChickensEvil]

No but if they are running more dungeons they will ideally see that they do suck earlier on and attempt to fix it. Some of the low level duty finder dungeons are more difficult than the level 50 stuff we have.

See above post... But seriously, harder than level 50 stuff? If you are doing the level 50 content in the gear they expected you to be in, it is rather difficult to complete those dungeons. Sure you running around in your full DL set would have no issue running WP/AK/CM/Prae/etc... because you have completely and totally outgeared the content. WP has quite a bit of a DPS check and coordination check to it (in appropriate gear), AK - the wall, total DPS check and coordination, and the last boss is the same... etc...

Go put a group together in your 40+/AF1 gear and remove all that fancy DL/AK stuff and tell me how easy this same content is. Those who got to 50 first know what it used to be like... now if you hit 50 you can totally be straight carried in that gear so of course it seems "easy". The only "hard" dungeons pre-50 is sunken temple and that one with the chimera boss... everything else is total cake.

No but maybe one or two dungeon runs will get it into that thick THM's skull that he should attack the tanks target. :P

Apparently not... since you MUST do no less than 8 dungeons and 3 primals before hitting 50... I would say it takes more than 2 dungeons to fix a bad player... because bad players are just going to be bad... FATEs have nothing to do with it.

[Yolteotl]

See above post... But seriously, harder than level 50 stuff? If you are doing the level 50 content in the gear they expected you to be in, it is rather difficult to complete those dungeons.

Apparently not... since you MUST do no less than 8 dungeons and 3 primals before hitting 50... I would say it takes more than 2 dungeons to fix a bad player... because bad players are just going to be bad... FATEs have nothing to do with it.

Pretty sure he is talking about the lvl50 FATEs as compared to dungeons. And you are not required to progress very far in the storyline to level, and even if you do; you only do so one time not necessarily multiple jobs. So you mat learn how to heal caue you did ur storyline on cnj, but u still have no idea how to tank or combo without group content on the different roles.

[BlueMage]

For the record, questing doesn't make you learn to play your class any better than FATE grinding

It does only in that with solo questing you have to learn *something* to at least survive and kill the mobs. If you don't know how to combo, you really won't survive leveling up. In FATE parties, you can get away with auto following and AFKing, even during battle. You don't even need to know how to combo to do FATEs, and I've seen people at Lv50 trying to get into endgame who don't know how to combo.

[ChickensEvil]

Pretty sure he is talking about the lvl50 FATEs as compared to dungeons. And you are not required to progress very far in the storyline to level, and even if you do; you only do so one time not necessarily multiple jobs. So you mat learn how to heal caue you did ur storyline on cnj, but u still have no idea how to tank or combo without group content on the different roles.

Level 50 fishing is also easier than the lower level dungeons... not sure what your point there is... The only reason to do FATEs at 50 is spirit bonding and seals. If that was was he was referring to, then it is a misdirection of the argument, and makes the entire point invalid.

I'm pretty sure if you have ever done group content... ever... you understand that healers heal, tanks tank, and dps blow shit up. Just because I leveled as a DPS doesn't mean that if I never touch a dungeon on a healer until 50 I won't get the basic that if someone's health is getting low, I should probably throw a heal on them. So then you must be talking about how you are somehow learning to play your class, In which case I again redirect to my previous post which points out that you don't know how to play your class correctly at 50... until you hit 50.

Since I left it off in the above examples... lets use WHM, I am a good dilligent WHM, I waste 12-14 hours leveling slowly through dungeons because I really want to learn to play, I hit 50, pick up medica 2, and then instantly get called out for being bad and not managing my threat properly. What happened? I mean, I tried to let the game teach me how to play, because obviously dungeon grinding imparts some super special secret wisdom onto me, right? Wrong. How many WHM sit there on Titan and use Medica 2 before you hit the heart phase (really should wait until P5... but, still). Or use it before P2 of Garuda. These are pretty basic, "early" content. Nothing you did prior to this point TOLD you how to use that ability correctly, either A: someone has to tell you. B: you go ACTUALLY be a good player and research it. Or C: you someday learn through trial and error to not use that spell because it pulls insane threat.

For the record, every "newbie" WHM I have ever ran with I have had to tell them about the proper usage of medica 2. Did it matter how they got to 50? nope! But instructing them on level 50 play made them a much better player. That, that right there is the real solution to all of this. Good players helping new guys learn, instead of instantly thinking they must be bad because they leveled that class through FATEs.