Titan is hard because your camera isn't zoomed out, not because of server-side delays

[ispano]

What people are calling lag though is getting out of aoe's and then still getting hit (at least anyone I know that cries lag). Some have it worse than others, sure.. but it hasn't happened in any other MMO. Ability lag and such? Sure.. But not being hit by things you were out of. If you provide me of an example of where that has happened, I will shut up. However, SE did something wrong with how the game handles latency and positioning for AOEs. People arguing that it's on the player end are just defending that there isn't anything wrong and will hurt the game in the long run (it is an issue that helped to kill 1.0).

Let me ask you something then. What if they made the servers sync player positions as close to instantly as possible, same with syncing clients. To remove said issue. And people still get hit and claim they were out and blame lag? What then? If it was such a serious problem, many many more people would be complaining about it. But many of us DON'T have the issue. I can't even count the amount of times I've just BARELY gotten out of, for example, Titan's weights, and not gotten hit. According to the people claiming lag, it's not possible.

So I repeat, the server sync and positional delay are indeed problems, but fixing or changing those will not get rid of the "lag" many people blame.

No three groups is fine, you fit into group C. Like has been said over and over and over no one is denying that for some it can be "net" lag problems.

The big three are net lag, pc lag and the 300ms forced on us. This has been talked about often and is nothing new to most of us. All of us are used to the first 2 which we can deal with using various methods. The problem is when people suffering from the first 2 have to also deal with the 3rd issue, especially since if people are honest about it they will admit even with a 31ms avg ping the 3rd issue can sometimes buck up and throw you.

SE cannot fix the first 2 issues but it can damn well fix the third. MMo are nothing new nowadays and we all have learned to deal with net lag and pc lag. Forcing a 300ms position check delay was asinine to start with doesn't matter if there are was the "get around" the issues like doing the achy breaky dance before attacks come up.

It is not rocket science.

31ms? I have near 200ms. I have rarely gotten hit, and every time I have was my fault for not moving soon enough or moving the wrong way. And I don't move preemptively, I move when I see the markers.

Lastly, your "groupings"

A - They often are not very skillful and like to blame lag and other issues on their lack of knowledge or mechanics of the game etc.

B - They are skillful, know the mechanics of the game and are able to objectively look at the game and see the issues, are often the ones starting threads wanting to get things fixed or at least get some answers.

C - You then have this last group who will deny there can be anything wrong on the game companies side and it is all your ISP, your pc, your lack of skill etc and they are unwilling to look at facts or attempt to use any common sense and refuse to admit maybe something should be done. This group also has a subset that admits even though they never ever see such problems maybe some others might but they should be able to get around the issues etc etc

I don't fit A, dodging is a non issue for me. I don't fit B either, while I see the "issue", it doesn't affect me enough to cause an issue, and hence you don't find me on the forums clamoring for SE to fix it. I also do not fit C, because I'm NOT saying SE has nothing to do with it. I'm saying those who ARE blaming SE refuse to accept it MIGHT be on their end. Or even somewhere between them and SE, which again SE has no control over. There is no one shade of gray between black and white.

[Allyra]

And that's what they're trying to say. Seeing it in a video from SOMEONE ELSE is not the same as having the issue yourself. All that says is that SOME people have an issue, and that can easily be an issue with something out of SE's control.

What does that have to do with what you said?

You said people haven't seen it so won't side with us. That's ridiculous. There is enough videos to prove it's happening. The debate should only be on HOW it is happening, NOT whether it's actually happening.

Again (broken record) I never laid this fault 100% at SE's feet. However, SE has it in their power to a. contact the isps that are causing the problem b. change their client to compensate for the lag.

It is not an issue outside of their control. They may not be the cause, but they most certainly have ways to counter what's happening.

[ispano]

What does that have to do with what you said?

You said people haven't seen it so won't side with us. That's ridiculous. There is enough videos to prove it's happening. The debate should only be on HOW it is happening, NOT whether it's actually happening.

Again (broken record) I never laid this fault 100% at SE's feet. However, SE has it in their power to a. contact the isps that are causing the problem b. change their client to compensate for the lag.

It is not an issue outside of their control. They may not be the cause, but they most certainly have ways to counter what's happening.

I never said they wouldn't side with you. I said that because it's NOT happening to everyone, that pushes the potential issue AWAY from SE. Doesn't make it not their issue, just that it's now more likely to NOT be them. And no, there are plenty of network/internet issues that SE has 0 control over.

If, for an example, a router that some people have to go through is dropping packets. This router isn't part of your ISPs network, or the ISP SE uses, it's somewhere in the middle on someone elses network. Can SE call that company and tell them? Sure, doesn't mean much though since SE isn't their customer.

Also, lag compensation has drawbacks as well. Changing fights to help those with "lag" or connection issues, mostly just makes the fight easier for everyone else.

You didn't read my post. I did not say they have control over the internet, they have control over compensating for the issues.

I did read your post. I edit in everything over the limit after the fact.

[Allyra]

And no, there are plenty of network/internet issues that SE has 0 control over.

You didn't read my post. I did not say they have control over the internet, they have control over compensating for the issues.

[Allyra]

I never said they wouldn't side with you. I said that because it's NOT happening to everyone, that pushes the potential issue AWAY from SE. Doesn't make it not their issue, just that it's now more likely to NOT be them.

This is what some people don't get - While you have people who have issues you have equally as many if not more who do not, how can you expect people to "come together" and basically say "yes there's a problem" if they've personally not had it or seen it?

I mixed you with this person

[Allyra]

If, for an example, a router that some people have to go through is dropping packets. This router isn't part of your ISPs network, or the ISP SE uses, it's somewhere in the middle on someone elses network. Can SE call that company and tell them? Sure, doesn't mean much though since SE isn't their customer.

Yes it means something. Big cooperations can work with companies a lot more easily that we can. We don't pay Tata either, so which do you think is going to have a bigger say?

As a community rep already reported, they are already doing so but in europe.

Also, lag compensation has drawbacks as well. Changing fights to help those with "lag" or connection issues, mostly just makes the fight easier for everyone else.

They plan on nerfing titan anyway, I'd rather that be the nerf if it eases stress on players.

[ispano]

They plan to nerf all "hard" content eventually, this has been known. But not before new content comes out to replace it.

In any case, my point is made. While you may or may not, many people claim "lag" as the reason for a failure to dodge. Some just didn't react in time. Some may have legitimate lag. Some may be experiencing server lag(Note the whole group would get it as well, which certainly does happen). The point is, that many or most of these people, REFUSE to accept that it's anything but SE's fault. Because they have Super Awesome Connection X or it doesn't happen elsewhere. I will happily point out a fault on SE's end, but I will not needlessly blame them without proof.

[Asmodeus]

Let me ask you something then. What if they made the servers sync player positions as close to instantly as possible, same with syncing clients. To remove said issue. And people still get hit and claim they were out and blame lag? What then? If it was such a serious problem, many many more people would be complaining about it. But many of us DON'T have the issue. I can't even count the amount of times I've just BARELY gotten out of, for example, Titan's weights, and not gotten hit. According to the people claiming lag, it's not possible.

.....

Again and last time I reply to you, you fit group C. You are refusing to use common sense, you refuse to admit SE could very well improve the issue many are having because YOU with 200ms say its not causing you any issues.

I am in aussie guild even though I live in Canada, I have been in this guild for a quite a few years and many have adapted to to 300ms+ they often run into when there is no aussie based servers but add this 300ms delay on checks and the issue is acerbated. This is still true even though some can "get around" and as such "do not have any issues" like you claim.

The point is it is not about you and what you can do but about others and the issues THEY are having. No one has claimed the net is never at fault or there weak PC are never at fault. I would even go so far as to say those suffering from X (net lag) have even bigger issues with Z (300ms delay) than those like me that have a 31ms avg ping.

Just because there are 3 main issues X, Y and Z and some people are suffering from X and Y issues does not mean Z isn't an issues and we should lump everyones problems into X and Y because we are "fans".

Hell I would say there is in fact a 4th issue we face and its people defending SE in these threads clouding the issue the threads is mainly about and thereby making it harder to make SE hear us.




Heh some of the people in this thread make me think of people back in the day that refused to believe there was such a thing as global warming...

[ispano]

Again and last time I reply to you, you fit group C. You are refusing to use common sense, you refuse to admit SE could very well improve the issue many are having because YOU with 200ms say its not causing you any issues.

I am in aussie guild even though I live in Canada, I have been in this guild for a quite a few years and many have adpated to to 300ms+ they often run into when there is no aussie based servers but add this 300ms delay on checks and the issue is acerbated. This is still true even though some can "get around" and as such "do not have any issues" like you claim.

The point is it is not about you and what you can do but about others and the issues THEY are having. No one has claimed the net is never at fault or there weak PC are never at fault, we are saying claiming that assuming it is that in this age and day most people are aware of these isssues.

Just because there are 3 main issues X, Y and Z and some people are suffering from X and Y issues does not mean Z isn't an issues and we should lump everyones problems into X and Y because we are "fans".

Hell I would say there is in fact a 4th issue we face and its people defending SE in these threads clouding the issue the threads is mainly about and thereby making it harder to make SE hear us.s.

You fail to read my posts. I 100% say SE could be at fault. But I also say that doesn't mean it IS their fault. I'm not defending SE. I'm pointing out that people refuse to accept that it can be anything BUT SE. And again, it very well could be. There are already known issues that we KNOW to be SE. But that doesn't mean ALL latency/lag issues are, and yet people STILL push said blame onto them. I would do this for a company I hate, because there's that group of people who refuse to accept that any problem can be from something other than the company they blame, much less themselves or something in between.

About the bolded part. You'd be surprised how many people DON'T actually know about the multitude of problems that can happen with their connection. Being a gamer doesn't actually mean those people are good with knowing how their connection works. No problem in that either. The problem is using said lack of knowledge to blame something or someone else.

[Asmodeus]

You fail to read my posts. I 100% say SE could be at fault. But I also say that doesn't mean it IS their fault. I'm not defending SE. I'm pointing out that people refuse to accept that it can be anything BUT SE. And again, it very well could be. There are already known issues that we KNOW to be SE. But that doesn't mean ALL latency/lag issues are, and yet people STILL push said blame onto them. I would do this for a company I hate, because there's that group of people who refuse to accept that any problem can be from something other than the company they blame, much less themselves or something in between.

About the bolded part. You'd be surprised how many people DON'T actually know about the multitude of problems that can happen with their connection. Being a gamer doesn't actually mean those people are good with knowing how their connection works. No problem in that either. The problem is using said lack of knowledge to blame something or someone else.

I failed nothing, you and others keeps spouting the same thing over and over when people in this thread that DO know about these thing are posting and trying to get something done. You and others ARE obfuscating the issue we are trying to get fixed.

It is that simple.

The people you keep venting about fit in group A we all are aware of them the same as we are aware of group C.

If you are really as objective as you claim leave group C and come join us in group B and add you voice to wanting the 300ms delay fixed and dealt with instead of doing what you are doing.