Market Wards, enough is enough

[IveraIvalice]

i haven't seen anyone who said they want an AH say they want bidding and waiting. do i don't understand why people are saying no to the traditional bidding and waiting to see if you got it, kuz no one seems to be saying that. it pretty much throws off the whole conversation. im sure everyone including myself are talking about AH as in the FFXI AH, considering most people are huge fans of FFXI.
so im gonna go ahead and break down some of the major pros and cons with market wards vs the benefits of an AH. (and since some people cant put together auction house in a final fantasy mmo. i'm talking about an AH like the one in FFXI)

Market Ward Cons
#1 you have to change areas to buy or sell items, very time consuming.
#2 the wards are not linked together, i have to waste anima to teleport to another more popular city just to buy something or sell something. very annoying if you cant tell.
#3 you have a limited amount of retainers, so that either means A. you have a retainer in the spells section but since you have a lot of different types of items to sell, you got retainers in the spells section selling dodo skin and marmot meat.
or B. add more retainers and then it becomes another issue about having too many things to go through just to sell items and get your money. both are really annoying and it doesn't seem like there's a fix for this.
#4 selling anything means you got to guess at how much you want to sell it for. you have no idea how much an item is worth, it slows down the economy because then people don't know how much to buy if for either, kuz there will be so many different prices. sure the will always pick the least expensive one but when that price jumps up 20k in a day people are like "i don't think i want to buy that".
#5 leaving the market wards means you have to run all the way to the end of the room. not a huge deal but it just doesn't help when you already have to jump to multiple areas to get your items (buy or sell)

Market Ward Pros
#1 it has a nice market shopping kinda feel, its not bad for a shopping experience if that's what your looking for
#2 you get to name your retainer and is like the first thing in the game that is really YOURS. in ffxi they had a mog house and moogle that was all yours but there's nothing like that in this game, its pretty disappointing, so this is the only thing that you get to determine.
honestly there aren't many pros.. it just seems like they wanted to make it different then the system in ffxi so its still trying to get UP to ffxi AH standards, it doesn't have anything that makes it better in any way, and i think people notice it and that why they want a FFXI type AH. which i agree with. though i would like to add that IF they did what i had suggested in an earlier post (make an AH as the new main selling and buying system but not get rid of the current market ward) then almost all of these Cons for market wards would turn to Pros because then there not the only option. if there's a better system for buying and selling items then the market wards would replace mules in ffxi and have it all in a shopping area that changes the pace and would be pretty enjoyable. it wouldn't be ignored because it is truly a "going to the mall" experience, its different in every city and prices can vary which may be what some people want and would want to do. but like i said earlier, since its the main system right now, its very annoying to HAVE to do that no matter what, if it was more of a bonus then it would be nice.

Auction House Pros (FFXI style)
#1 everything is in a list and easily accessible. yes the item search feature is the same way but its only to find the item. in the AH its to buy and sell the item, not just to find it
#2 all the AH are linked together, no need to travel across the world to find one item because its not in the city your in.
#3 you can compare prices very easily for selling because its all in a list right there in the same place.
#4 you can sell items right there, no need to exit the menu and travel to a whole other area and find or summon your retainer to go through his list just to sell something
#5 your money is sent to you directly. the current system makes you have to go through the trouble of finding or summoning your retainer (same as selling) just to get your money.
#6 just the ease of having everything in front of you in stead of running around to find stuff

Auction House Cons (FFXI style)
#1 its pretty boring, there is not shopping feel to it like the wards have
and that's actually all i can think of, because there were many years to perfect that system its pretty hard to find major faults in it.

so i hope you guys can tell by now, i'm pro AH. but im not like "WE WANT AUCTION HOUSE NOW RAWWWWR!!!"
so, by saying that, i understand the people that would prefer the market wards, and im not quick to throw out the market wards system but, i don't see how it can ever be better than the FFXI AH that alot of people here have used and never had a problem with, and i don't think people are saying its gonna be an instant fix to add an AH it just seems like it will be the better choice with more ease of its functions after its perfected.

so for anyone that looked at this and was like "dammnnnnnn! im not reading all that" heres the sum up. i gave you my opinion and tried to sum up what everyone else is saying in a non barbaric way. kuz i think we can all agree, a post that says "AUCTION HOUSE NOW!!" doesn't help anyone.
and i know there are probably more Pros and cons of the AH and MW so feel free to post more if you think it will actually make a difference. and my opinion is to make an AH as the main system for buying and selling and keep market wards as a unique shopping, "mall" type of experience that replaces the 100+ people that stand around for hours selling things off their bazaar.
I just want to gather the community's thoughts so we can get right down to fixing the issue

[Gracious]

There are players that simply want an Auction House. Why is that so hard for some people to understand?

[Sorel]

Very well said, Amineri. You've outlined the problem perfectly. I am hoping Bayohne will forward your feedback to the Development Team.

The seek item feature has the following deficiencies:

Items being sought cannot be searched via an item search function : there is no way to find a retainer that is seeking something, other than examining each and every retainer in the ward individually -- never going to happen. Not only that, there isn't even a unique icon for 'seek item' compared to selling item.

Something that would solve this facet of the problem would be adding an option after "Item Search Counter" called "Buyer Search Counter". Item Search currently lists and marks those Retainers who are selling a particular item. "Buyer Search" could list and mark those Retainers who are buying a particular item.

You must have the item you wish to buy. Want to buy 100 lightning crystals? You must already have 100 lightning crystals, and these lightning crystals have to be kept on your retainer, until someone sells your retainer the crystals. Even better. Want to buy a Crab Bow +3? You can only do this if you already HAVE a Crab Bow +3. But if you already have it, why would you seek for it? To add insult to injury, the item you are seeking must be at 100% repair or it can't go into the bazaar.

This facet of the problem is due to the fact that Retainers do not have direct access to the "master" item databases on the server. They have to keep a "local" item database on their person in the form of the items they have in their slots. This was probably to prevent server overload issues. The solution would be for the game client (not the server) to list all the available items from its database on the local computer, then the player chooses what he wants to buy from that list. The client then transmits that "buy list" to the Retainer on the server.

Suppose despite the above, you go ahead and have your retainer seek 100 lightning crystals. You give a price you are willing to pay, and lightning crystals go into the retainers bazaar. Now, the retainer will only buy ALL 100 crystals all at once, as part of a single transaction. If someone finds your retainer, and wants to sell 7 lightning crystals, it can't happen. It's all-or-nothing. A more rational system would let the retainer buy the 7 lightning crystals, and continue seeking for the remaining 93.

This is just due to bad algorithm design. A better algorithm would be more like online stock buying. When a player creates a "buy order" or "buy list", the Retainer should ask 3 questions.

1. What do you want me to buy?
2. At what price do you want me to stop buying?
3. At what quantity do you want me to stop buying?

This solution allows a player to tell their Retainer to buy Iron Nuggets, for no more than 500gil per nugget, and no more than 25 nuggets.

As if the above weren't enough to make 'seek item' completely worthless, seeking an item takes up TWO bazaar slots. One slot is filled with the item(s) being sought, and the other slot is taken up by the gil or item reward. Thus a retainer can only seek for FIVE different items, compared to selling TEN items.

Well, if you are trading an item instead of paying gil, I don't see how to avoid using a slot for the item you are offering. But I agree gil sales should just pull from your Retainer's currency pool. That should be an easy fix for the Development Team.

[Cairdeas]

Auction House Pros (FFXI style)
#1 everything is in a list and easily accessible. yes the item search feature is the same way but its only to find the item. in the AH its to buy and sell the item, not just to find it
#2 all the AH are linked together, no need to travel across the world to find one item because its not in the city your in.
#3 you can compare prices very easily for selling because its all in a list right there in the same place.
#4 you can sell items right there, no need to exit the menu and travel to a whole other area and find or summon your retainer to go through his list just to sell something
#5 your money is sent to you directly. the current system makes you have to go through the trouble of finding or summoning your retainer (same as selling) just to get your money.
#6 just the ease of having everything in front of you in stead of running around to find stuff

1. Not Exclusive to Auction Houses. Can be implemented in the Market Ward.
2. Not Exclusive to Auction Houses. Can be implemented in the Market Ward.
3. Market Wards already allow you to compare prices of items others are selling. If you feel you can make a profit and sell the item faster for a lower price then already listed, go ahead. Thats economics.
4. Not Exclusive.
5. In FFXI your money was not given to you directly when you sold an item. It was delievered to your mailbox and you had to go to a mog house to get it. Same with every other AH the money is dropped in a mailbox that you have to go hunt down.
6. Not exclusive.


Everything you mentioned can be implemented into the Market Ward without an Auction house.

[Dreadnought]

1. Not Exclusive to Auction Houses. Can be implemented in the Market Ward.
2. Not Exclusive to Auction Houses. Can be implemented in the Market Ward.
3. Market Wards already allow you to compare prices of items others are selling. If you feel you can make a profit and sell the item faster for a lower price then already listed, go ahead. Thats economics.
4. Not Exclusive.
5. In FFXI your money was not given to you directly when you sold an item. It was delievered to your mailbox and you had to go to a mog house to get it. Same with every other AH the money is dropped in a mailbox that you have to go hunt down.
6. Not exclusive.


Everything you mentioned can be implemented into the Market Ward without an Auction house.

i think your right about all of that, essentially the wards a just an AH, with the extra step of walking to pick up the item (assuming the wards are fixed up accordingly)
im fine with either one as long as they are stable, i just think its very interesting how diehard you and a few other people are about keeping wards and retainers.
in my personal opinion the retainers are anything but welcoming or even appealing. theyre pretty creepy actually, and seeing sooooooooo many (of what look like) people in one small cramped room is also kinda creepy. maybe the wards crashes are the retainers breaking loose once in a while lol.
also, if wards can essentially be AHs with the extra 10 second step of walking to get the item, why even have that extra step at all?

[Asmeret]

1. Not Exclusive to Auction Houses. Can be implemented in the Market Ward.
2. Not Exclusive to Auction Houses. Can be implemented in the Market Ward.
3. Market Wards already allow you to compare prices of items others are selling. If you feel you can make a profit and sell the item faster for a lower price then already listed, go ahead. Thats economics.
4. Not Exclusive.
5. In FFXI your money was not given to you directly when you sold an item. It was delievered to your mailbox and you had to go to a mog house to get it. Same with every other AH the money is dropped in a mailbox that you have to go hunt down.
6. Not exclusive.


Everything you mentioned can be implemented into the Market Ward without an Auction house.

And then it pretty much gets turned into an Auction House.

[Lerris]

Simple Solution ( at least conceptually ):
Allow our retainers to do the footwork for us.
Summon retainer in Adventurers Guild. Browse items in market ward search menu. Select item, retainer buys it, hands it over.

We still have the option of entering the wards to shop ourselves, everyone is happy.

[Dreadnought]

And then it pretty much gets turned into an Auction House.

lol thast basically what my post was, yeah its pretty much an auction house, why make me walk at that point?

take any of those features away and you have a system the average player would consider clunky and to some un-useable.
"Cuz then its not immerssive enough!!" lol well idk, most people dont play MMOs for the sole purpose of economic manipulation, its usually "more of just a thing some people do" as everyone ive ever known has put it. theres a whole story to explore and zones (well supposed to be anyway) to explore, people to meet, monsters to fell..... how about immersing that way?

[Shika]

I don't mind what we have- whether it is a Market Ward system or an Auction House system. Call it Bob for all I care.
As long as I can search for the item I want to buy and find it quickly, then it doesn't bother me. It doesn't bother me if I have to zone into a ward to find the bazaar selling the item; to me it is not that huge a deal, although I know it annoys some people. Aren't MMO's supposed to be timesinks anyway? :P

I think the Market Ward system is a lot better than it used to be- there are still some tweaks required in terms of item searching capability and maybe being able to see pricing history etc. The wards here on Bodhum have been pretty stable for a while (retainers even stayed up through the maintenance the other day like they promised they would do!).

I played FFXI for 5 years so obviously some sort of AH counter system would be, to me personally, maybe a little more comfortable because of the familiarity- assuming it is very similar to the one in FFXI. But, I don't mind the market wards and just feel some adjustments and improvements are needed. Retainers holding items, requesting items to buy, or seeking repairs etc as well as selling stuff in the wards has a lot of potential with the right implementation- they just need to adjust the way this works a bit.

What if the developers never put the Auction House counter system from FFXI into the game?

What if they improved the ward system so that you could really easily find an item that you were looking for (including differentiation for +1, +2 and +3) maybe by changing the criteria for searching at the counter to simplify it- i.e. not just by each ward but by type of item instead, see a price history, maybe link all three city's wards together in some way rather than having to travel, and whatever other adjustments that are requested- if the only difference is that you had to zone into a ward to buy the item from a retainer is that really such an issue?

If it is, then maybe they could introduce a way of being able to purchase from the item search counter and have the wards for retainers where people want to browse bazaars, seek repairs and request the purchase of items. A compromise

[Seif]

Just put the damn Auction House in there!

How many players would return if SE could advertise a new AH system that people have for so long wanted?

How many players would return to see new tweaks to the current mess?

AH has a lot more value than just the function and ease of use. It's a marketing tool that SE needs BADLY. Personally I'm not using MW at all just because I hate the entire system from the bottom of my black soul