If you have the time, please read this.

[TetsuyaHikari]

I can really relate with this story in many ways. It was quite frustrating for me in the beginning when I played my first MMO (Ragnarok Online) because I was wanting to improve, but a lot of people weren't even giving me the time of day because I was a newb. I didn't know the battle mechanics for boss fights which they've run hundreds (or possibly even thousands) of times, I was still learning my character, etc.

So, I was left to only party with other "losers", but... You'd always have the elitist who would remind you that a group of losers doesn't make a better party, you're all still losers. As I did finally improve, I slowly began to become something I hated over time... I lost sight of who I used to be due to only focusing on who I was at the time, a knowledgeable player.

This caused me to behave in a rather immature manner at times, not wanting to give players, who were much like myself at one point, a second glance if they didn't know what they were doing. I felt as though they were wasting my time if they kept getting the party killed and such.

It's really difficult to keep a humble attitude after knowing how long it took you to get where you are today, you know? You can't help but feel like you're on a completely different level from this other player, no... A different league even. Here you have spent 1,000+ hours on a character, maxed out all the jobs, have most of them equipped with the best gear that the game has to offer, and this guy hasn't even put in 100 hours worth of playtime.

I'd be lying if I said there was never a sense of superiority when confronting someone like that. A part of you probably demands respect from that person so they will recognize your accomplishments and the time you've invested. It can be difficult to remind yourself you used to be a novice at some point as well and it only gets harder to remember the more you play.

You begin associating yourselves with other veterans and before you know it... You're part of the cool kids circle. Thus, the community becomes separated in what I'd like to call the 'Lower class', 'Middle class', and 'Upper class' players. Each category consists of new players, intermediate players (basically people who have dumped a bit of time into their character, but still have a way to go... The halfway point, I'd say), then the expert players that treat the game as a profession and study it. Much like the real world, it's very rare you'll see the 'Upper class' associating with the 'Lower class' individuals.

After hanging around the same group of people for so long, you begin to grow comfortable with them. There's also something known as 'dolphin evolution' which occurs. This happens when you've associated yourself with a group of individuals for so long, you begin to have their mannerisms, share their ideology, and even behave like them (sometimes even changing the way you laugh).

This is why it can be so conflicting if you should ever have to make a choice between these people you call your friends and helping out a stranger. You'll have to risk everything you've worked for and basically reconstruct yourself from the ground up if you help the stranger because in this group of elitists, there's no room for modesty or charity.

These days, I just try to disassociate myself from individuals altogether to try and avoid the drama which inevitably follows. I guess that sounds kind of sad when I think about it, but at least this way... I'm able to retain my individuality while communicating with a multitude of players instead of solely focusing on a particular group (i.e. Coil only FC/LS). Don't get me wrong though... I'm still impatient when it comes to players just simply not learning.

I can't tell you how many parties I've left in Brayflox because the tank keeps the dragon in the poison every time we try and fight it, causing me to eventually run out of MP. The worst part is, they usually want to blame me since I'm the healer. "Why didn't you keep me alive?"

Oh, I don't know... Maybe because you're a dumbass? I can't heal when you're draining all my MP, noob! So yeah, I do act like that sometimes, haha. It's just very situational. You can tell when someone is really trying and when someone simply just doesn't look like they care or want to learn.

[Battlewrench]

And god forbid this guy "grow a backbone". At least if this guy was apologetic it throws the elitists off and at worst they ignore him. But can you imagine if this guy became argumentative? He'd be chewed up in an instant. As far as I'm concerned, being able to admit failure and showing a real desire to get better takes more backbone than anyone who simply resorts to trash-talk and trolling when responding to criticism.

I'm not saying admitting that your bad at something is bad, I'm not saying become argumentative, I'm saying he has no reason to apologize and doing so negatively effects my opinion of him to the point that I no longer care. Having a backbone doesn't mean arguing and trolling it could also mean bettering yourself and not apologizing for doing nothing wrong. Having confidence in yourself is needed, as long as it doesn't become arrogant. I wouldn't want sympathy from those people who were shunning me either. Not trying to argue or anything just wanted to make it clear what I meant when I said "grow a backbone" and I still stand by the statement.

[Zfz]

I think the key take-home point is something perhaps any who are involved in education would know: every student is different.

An "outcast" that is branded "stupid" or "slow" could suddenly perform top notch if you teach him the right way, i.e., the way he understands. Granted, if there are circumstances that prevent a person to react reasonably fast, then there's absolutely no way he can perform well in an reaction game (getting out of AOE, keeping tabs on adds, etc.); but regarding gearing, builds, rotations, it's basically just application of knowledge.

The problem is everyone thinks guides and wikis are enough. "If I could learn it reading the wiki, sure as hell anybody should be able to." But that is simply not true.

Most gearing and rotation problems stem from a lack of basic knowledge regarding the design of the battle system; the connection between cause (gear/rotation) and effect (damage output). You help him make that connection, and his performance improves.

As an example, when you see a Black Mage melding +DEX on his gear, what do you say when you try to teach him? "You need INT/Crit/Hit/etc but never DEX." But you did not provide the key connection that he doesn't have, that is really making him meld DEX: "INT does this/Crit does this/Hit does this, and DEX does that so you don't want it". The problem with a lot of "guides" or "how-tos" is the lack of connection between cause and effect. Hence the guides become just a list of "do this and do that", but if you don't understand the why in the first place, you still don't after reading the guide 100 times.

[Welsper59]

LOL I remember that thread. I'd actually be surprised if a lot of folks take the time to read that, even moreso due to the fact it's on the WoW forums.

On-point though, I have a friend that I play this game with that's kind of in the same boat. He's just playing to have fun, but he's not exactly the greatest at what he does. Gets hit by easy to avoid AoE, stands in the fire or in bad positioning (close to tank sometimes), etc. Part of that is likely due to his laptop only being slightly better than minimum reqs. After knowing this guy for years, his not dodging things often is definitely not on purpose... it's just how he is. Some people won't adjust themselves at the drop of a hat. Some people need help from those they're comfortable with. Our group of friends on this game understand that and we really don't see a point to pushing him on getting better (yet).

The beauty of this game is the gradual need to adjust your playstyle if needed, as far as mechanics are concerned. It throws things at you that aren't a "do or die" sort of thing from the beginning. For example, Ifrit storymode fight. It's a GREAT way to help someone practice mechanics without being too punishing for making mistakes and without wasting time on running around or fighting trash. Each primal fight is a great way to practice mechanics, along with the guildhests for more basic training.

[Toranja]

It made me cry.

[Arriverderci]

It made me cry.

OMG!
Pretty Pink Porty!
I love you. x)

[SaintAjora]

Quote snip~

It seems to be a Korean (East Asian?) thing to apologize if others feel wronged by you. I'm not even going to pretend to be an expert or anything. I've just seen it so many times (along with getting annoyed when the person didn't even do anything I thought was wrong, so I see your point). It seems off to some, but it's definitely a cultural thing.

[Yoona]

Nice story.

Now back to reality.

Can't really help anyone when any time you try to give people advice, they just tell you to F off.

Welcome to World of FFXIV.

[Diadumenos]

+1 for the read.

It's a game folks, more than that it is a MMORPG. A genre founded on community. Take some time and make a friend. Duty up for a lvl 10. Keep an eye out for the adventurer in need. Be "that player" from some random gamers memory that helped them when they needed it.

I tip my digital hat to those of you who are trying to make this a better community for all.

[Ryuko]

I read it. I do believe that it applies to all MMO (or online game) communities -- not just WoW. I don't think anyone is as 'infamous' on any server for being as bad as the warrior in that post, but people definitely have a reputation.

When you see someone who is not playing right, you have three (really two) options:

1) Try to help the person by offering encouraging (but blunt) friendly advice.
2) Call the person out for being bad and kick them without offering any help.
3) Let the player down easy by saying you are breaking the party, when in the end you are just waiting for him/her to leave so you can replace.

I always choose the first option. You have to be careful about what you say, though, because even if you are polite and friendly... your advice might not always be wanted. Some people give advice that ISN'T good so new players have to be skeptical about what other players are telling them. Some new players who aren't very good will get offended if they are told what to do. I once explained to a healer in Titan that he had to Esuna people ASAP (people were sitting with it on for the entire duration) and he told me he didn't have time for it. I told him, "I know it's hard, but you have to do it." That's the simple fact of the matter.

Some players will not take advice. They will always be bad players BECAUSE they do not try to improve in any way. Other plays WILL take advice and they are worth helping! When given the option, choose option one. The only time I get annoyed is if I have limited time and advertised for a run with people who knew what they were doing... and someone joins who clearly doesn't know what to do. I do many runs with inexperienced/undergeared players... so please don't mislead me when I am trying to get something done fast.

There isn't much to do in FFXIV right now. If you made it to 50 and geared up your main job, what is there to look forward to besides Coil and Myth farming each week? There is always time to help people, but it is really a two way street. How is the person being helped going to take it? How are you going to say it? You have to be polite and nice... not a jerk. I met one SMN who refused to use Fester because he thought it wasn't worth it. Other members in my party laughed at him, but I tried to explain why it was worth it. Unfortunately, everyone laughing at him may have caused him to become even more deeply entrenched in his original standpoint that he didn't take my advice. This is never good. We don't grow as a community if we unnecessarily insult others.