Warrior "buff" in 2.1: not what we are expecting?

[Hitokirinomad]

First, it makes perfect sense to do a comparison of Sword Oath to non Defiance, and Defiance to Shield Oath, as those are the equivalent states (OT v MT). However, there is a difference of FIFTY strength in Paikis's comparison. So yes, when using his high emnity combo he would pull quite easily from the PLD. What he is missing is that in Sword Oath, with that disparity in gear and stats, as a PLD he would *also* quite easily pull aggro. So it is in no way a valid comparison. It's not 'grasping at straws', it's called 'reducing variables'. Part of that math thing that apparently real life doesn't account for. Hell, even without the gear, I doubt the PLD is using Spirits Within on cooldown (for ADS) because it has to be saved for silence DR, which will further decrease the PLD's damage.

To be clear, the argument isn't that PLD outdamages WAR, the argument is 'given equal gear level, spec, and skill of players, WAR DPS is not significantly higher enough than PLD to justify the mitigation difference.' If WAR DPS potential was actually higher than PLD DPS potential by 20-40%, it would at least be something to point to. But that is not the case. Anecdotal evidence of OT doing more damage than MT means..not much.

[Taemek]

First, it makes perfect sense to do a comparison of Sword Oath to non Defiance, and Defiance to Shield Oath, as those are the equivalent states (OT v MT). However, there is a difference of FIFTY strength in Paikis's comparison. So yes, when using his high emnity combo he would pull quite easily from the PLD. What he is missing is that in Sword Oath, with that disparity in gear and stats, as a PLD he would *also* quite easily pull aggro. So it is in no way a valid comparison. It's not 'grasping at straws', it's called 'reducing variables'. Part of that math thing that apparently real life doesn't account for. Hell, even without the gear, I doubt the PLD is using Spirits Within on cooldown (for ADS) because it has to be saved for silence DR, which will further decrease the PLD's damage.

To be clear, the argument isn't that PLD outdamages WAR, the argument is 'given equal gear level, spec, and skill of players, WAR DPS is not significantly higher enough than PLD to justify the mitigation difference.' If WAR DPS potential was actually higher than PLD DPS potential by 20-40%, it would at least be something to point to. But that is not the case. Anecdotal evidence of OT doing more damage than MT means..not much.

Hmm not sure if you are keeping up, your argument is all over the place and incoherent.

Firstly, the anecdotal evidence of the OT doing more then the MT means everything. Unless he changes his gear out to tank in, no variables have changed, so the same DPS he does as OT will be the same DPS he does as MT. Using ADS was a bad example imho, however if a fight lasted an infinity amount of time, the Warrior would have the longer legs on enimity generation due to simply being a higher DPS tank class. It is safe to assume here, seeing he has VIT + Parry socketed in to those so called "DPS trinkets" which by the way have been proven to be BiS for Warriors as per the http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...zation-for-WAR thread, that he does Tank in that gear spec.

Secondly, its a real time scenario, not real life and the argument we are referring too is people comparing Sword Oath vs. Defiance to justify the reason why PLD's out dps Warriors, see the issue here? Who, as a PLD tanks in Sword Oath where it matters? Parsing real time is all the matters unless your math is able to calculate wait times, jousting, movement and all the other unpredictable situations that arise during a fight. In saying that, yes it is possible to maximize your DPS by minimizing certain variables, however math has been displayed on these forums particularly as a 100% consistent up time, which we all know does not happen in a real time environment.

Thirdly, assuming you know the STR wall limits, he might be only utilizing 35 of that 50 STR. As such I don't think anyone has concrete anecdotal evidence that supports true high values as yet.

The same math you all claim to be true here can be applied here to find the gap between the Paladin and Warrior in question. Assume he does 40% more DPS then said Paladin using said gear specs. Even if the Paladin closed those gaps to either mirror the same gear spec, he still would not come close to even remotely closing that 40% gap at this point in the game, there is simply not enough stat gain to be had in the small amount of stats that are different. You are talking about, maybe closing it by 10% at most and that's doing rough figures in my head.

I am still waiting for those parses if anyone feels keen on doing them, test dummies await a beating. Pretty easy to do the parses I believe. Just put them both in full DL gear, same quality weapon Relic or Relic +1 and have at it for a few hours on the test dummies. Post the parsed data on the forums.