Warrior "buff" in 2.1: not what we are expecting?

[Ruminate]

Anything a PLD can tank with sword oath on is content that is massively out-geared. For things that matter, the PLD will have shield oath on, the WAR will have defiance active, and the WAR will out-DPS and out-threat the PLD all day long.

You can maths this, and theory-craft that all you like. At the end of the day though, I haven't yet met a PLD that could keep hate off me when I want it. My raid uses me (WAR) and a PLD to tank coil and the parser I use shows me a solid 20-40% (depending on the fight) ahead of the PLD in my raid. I can't count the number of times I have pulled threat accidentally on ADS and adds because I wasn't paying attention and used Butcher's Block instead of Storm's Eye. Rips it right off him in 1-3 combos, no matter what. You can't even try to tell me that he's just bad, because honestly, you CANT screw up the Rage of Halone combo.

Is this your character?
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/2524694/

Is this the PLD in your FC that you're referring to?
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/3498503/

[Riffy]

This should be fun

[Paikis]

This should be fun

It should indeed.

Is this your character?

Yup.

[Riffy]

I see.

I don't know how well your MT performs, but get back with me when his gear is of equal value.

BTW, we're not asking for nerfs on PLDs.

[Ruminate]

Yup.

Well, I hate to burst your bubble, but its kind of obvious that the other tank can't pull threat off you when you're packing 4 more DPS accessories, a helmet that is 35 ilvls higher, and gloves melded with DPS materia.

In other words, your anecdote doesn't prove that WARs deal 20-40% more damage than PLDs. Your anecdote proves that your WAR and your gear allows you to deal 20-40% more damage than the PLD and his gear.

[Hitokirinomad]

He didn't really say any such thing about buffing Warriors at all, he did however apologize for 2 x PLD's trivializing Coil though and that wasn't intended. He went on to say that Warriors would get a look, including their Stun skill which has a long animation time compared to other melee classes stun abilities which has a short animation time.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/113554

Yoshi specifically mentioned change that would allow WAR to be more efficient in Turn 1 and 4, the stun adjustment you mentioned, and spoke about the issue of the healing bonus being tied to Wrath stacks being in conflict with IB usage. Then he finished with (emphasis mine):

"These are a few of the factors contributing to the problems we've seen with warrior. While we'd like you all to continue experimenting with uses for Wrath up until patch 2.1, we feel effective use of this skill is a bit difficult, so we'll be making adjustments in patch 2.1. There are several other aspects of the job that will be adjusted, but rest assured that warrior will become stronger come December."

How exactly do you interpret that as anything but plans to buff?

P.S. Congrats on actually leveling your WAR btw.

[Taemek]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/113554

Yoshi specifically mentioned change that would allow WAR to be more efficient in Turn 1 and 4, the stun adjustment you mentioned, and spoke about the issue of the healing bonus being tied to Wrath stacks being in conflict with IB usage. Then he finished with (emphasis mine):

"These are a few of the factors contributing to the problems we've seen with warrior. While we'd like you all to continue experimenting with uses for Wrath up until patch 2.1, we feel effective use of this skill is a bit difficult, so we'll be making adjustments in patch 2.1. There are several other aspects of the job that will be adjusted, but rest assured that warrior will become stronger come December."

How exactly do you interpret that as anything but plans to buff?

P.S. Congrats on actually leveling your WAR btw.

I been trying to search for that thread, cheers for linking it.

I did say that we were getting a look, however, I think people are expecting more then what we will receive.

[Taemek]

Well, I hate to burst your bubble, but its kind of obvious that the other tank can't pull threat off you when you're packing 4 more DPS accessories, a helmet that is 35 ilvls higher, and gloves melded with DPS materia.

In other words, your anecdote doesn't prove that WARs deal 20-40% more damage than PLDs. Your anecdote proves that your WAR and your gear allows you to deal 20-40% more damage than the PLD and his gear.

I'm speechless, literally.

First the argument was that Shield Oath out DPS's Defiance stance - proved wrong, now, the PLD has to be in DPS gear while tanking in Shield Oath for a comparison.

Yeah..........truth is you guys are grasping at straws now days and the fact remains that Warriors out DPS PLD's by a considerable margin, end of story.

[Sakasa]

On the changes mentioned portion for being the same was in reference to pld being able to stun on command everytime case in point ifrit which was the story he told before saying that. Which is why supposedly one of the changes is putting stun on GCD (Which I perfer it wasn't). The making the same portion I do not think he meant the abilities and/or defense per say. This bring me back to the coil buff I believe he was talking about the razor buff for Caduceus where a pld can survive all the way to 6 stacks with hollow ground even in less then subpar gear. I am assuming that defiance will remain the same but wrath and wrath costs will be reduced for inner beast - Gensho maybe from 5 to three to allow you to get off a double swing to heal if you stack your combos right and potentially 4 inners in 14 seconds which would make up a considerable increase. I believe this because scaling inner beast with hp pool would out pace healers in a short term stretch and would only get worst has stat caps are increased. But then again the DPS increase gained from it might tip the war to far against the artifical numbers they locked warrior into.

[Hitokirinomad]

First, it makes perfect sense to do a comparison of Sword Oath to non Defiance, and Defiance to Shield Oath, as those are the equivalent states (OT v MT). However, there is a difference of FIFTY strength in Paikis's comparison. So yes, when using his high emnity combo he would pull quite easily from the PLD. What he is missing is that in Sword Oath, with that disparity in gear and stats, as a PLD he would *also* quite easily pull aggro. So it is in no way a valid comparison. It's not 'grasping at straws', it's called 'reducing variables'. Part of that math thing that apparently real life doesn't account for. Hell, even without the gear, I doubt the PLD is using Spirits Within on cooldown (for ADS) because it has to be saved for silence DR, which will further decrease the PLD's damage.

To be clear, the argument isn't that PLD outdamages WAR, the argument is 'given equal gear level, spec, and skill of players, WAR DPS is not significantly higher enough than PLD to justify the mitigation difference.' If WAR DPS potential was actually higher than PLD DPS potential by 20-40%, it would at least be something to point to. But that is not the case. Anecdotal evidence of OT doing more damage than MT means..not much.