Monk- general discussion and feedback

[Shidobu]

Ideas off the top of my head since we are in the relm of "what if's and can i have this"

We should be able to spend Grease lightning stacks like Arcanist use atherflows

Situation where you are 100% sure your going to loose your GL to Teleports/jumps/phase shifts/dungeon mechanics
Can spend your Greased lightning stacks for some extra damage since you are going to loose GL anyways
One inch punch = Base potency added effect: +potency per stack of GL. ( A fully buffed one inch punch around 200-250 potency?)

Can give mnk another spike move to compensate for dps lost during dungeon mechanics. This would be a nice trade imo would have to give one inch punch a longer CD to negate abuse

Perfect balance should (imo) should give us TP 200-300tp to combat skill speed tp drain that happens when you start capping gear out. TP every 3 minutes is not broken when there's abilities like Invigorate around


just things that came to my mind that i would enjoy as a monk.

[Meleena]

let dragon kick animation alone.
We dont need faster WS animations, they are extremely fast as is.
Give 1 sec more to GL

[DerpyCubone]

wait wait wait
"Because I never tested something so very specific as whether your DoT has to be stronger, or equal in strength, to overwrite."
You never hit a dot refresh before on your way to 50? Or were you 50 at the start of ARR? I'm not being a smartass here I'm generally wondering. Because that might explain alot. I was a Bard in 1.0 but remade on a fresh start server so I could play with some RL friends. If you didn't have the ARR solo questing experience, that honestly might explain your views of GL for solo/non-boss fight stuff.

From about the 30-40 range on Monk I thought about giving it up. It was annoying to quest with. Your ability to kill and move on was just meh. It sucked to see my Drg friend just rip through enemies, while I hit things with 130 attacks in the face so no crits while being unable to keep GL up because the next enemy I had to kill was 7 seconds away and I only had 4 to get there.

Also I can be a smartass all I want and point out hypocritcal things in your comments, like you have been doing to me anytime I mentioned DPS
Just like this!
"See, when you try to cling to that for like 3-4 posts in a thread and try to use it as ammunition to suggest I don't know how DoTs work or suggest it says a lot about my MNK then it's just funny/desperate."
"or when you chime in with support for suggested changes that will in fact upset the balance of DPS jobs by overpowering MNK."
Not asking for DPS changes, but you keep coming back to that in 3-4 posts. Says alot I think. I'm asking for a fun adjust, you keep bringing it around to DPS balance... granted anything that do will have to address that, but that can be done easy enough, alot of other games have, I don't see why XIV couldn't as well.
*Added Note, this late part was meant to be tongue in cheek, after rereading it i did not come across how I intended, I am not changing the words at all but just adding this note for clarification*

[Dhex]

I can be a smartass all I want

It's what makes the world go round!

:3

[NoctisUmbra]

wait wait wait
"Because I never tested something so very specific as whether your DoT has to be stronger, or equal in strength, to overwrite."
You never hit a dot refresh before on your way to 50? Or were you 50 at the start of ARR? I'm not being a smartass here I'm generally wondering. Because that might explain alot. I was a Bard in 1.0 but remade on a fresh start server so I could play with some RL friends. If you didn't have the ARR solo experience, that honestly might explain your views of GL and solo/non-boss fight stuff.

From about the 30-40 range on Monk I thought about giving it up. It was annoying to quest with. Your ability to kill and move on was just meh. It sucked to see my Drg friend just rip through enemies, while I hit things with 130 attacks in the face so no crits while being unable to keep GL up because the next enemy I had to kill was 7 seconds away and I only had 4 to get there.

I do not DoT refresh on MNK. Never had to. I knew right off the bat, from simple theorycrafting ( and then damage testing) that clipping my DoTs on MNK was a net DPS loss. Once I decided that "refreshing" DoTs on MNK is bad practice, I did not need to know the exact specific mechanics behind when I can or cannot overwrite. I just knew for a fact that an unbuffed DoT would not overwrite a buffed one.

Yes, I had all battle classes 50 coming into ARR (obv. besides ACN). I did, however, use beta phase 3 to roll a pugilist from 0 and level it all the way up to the cap at the time. That is how I first learned how to play the new MNK. Plenty of solo experience. I will admit that MNK isn't as good as some other jobs when it comes to solo play, due to being highly dependent on positional combos and having trouble chaining targets effectively.

However, do I need to look back through your posts and pick out your quote where you say you're fine with certain jobs being better at certain things? It seems like something you would do.

BRD is still going to remain the best job to go out solo farming with lol. Heck, I switch to BRD when I want to go farm mats.

Also I can be a smartass all I want and point out hypocritcal things in your comments, like you have been doing to me anytime I mentioned DPS
Just like this!
"See, when you try to cling to that for like 3-4 posts in a thread and try to use it as ammunition to suggest I don't know how DoTs work or suggest it says a lot about my MNK then it's just funny/desperate."
"or when you chime in with support for suggested changes that will in fact upset the balance of DPS jobs by overpowering MNK."
Not asking for DPS changes, but you keep coming back to that in 3-4 posts. Says alot I think. I'm asking for a fun adjust, you keep bringing it around to DPS balance... granted anything that do will have to address that, but that can be done easy enough, alot of other games have, I don't see why XIV couldn't as well.

I called you out on your smartass remark there because it was out of line. You were suggesting a contradiction in my posts by taking 2 bits out of context. It wasn't hypocritical. It would have been hypocritical if I suggested my personal parses were my sole evidence for suggesting MNK is amazing DPS.

[DerpyCubone]

Snip.

Jobs can be a bit better at things. But not frustratingly so. Clearly a BLM is better then a MNK at AOE, I have no issue with this. A BLM is better at CCing, A MNK is better at offtanking something for a bit. A MNK is better at single target damage in a standstill fight. Get alot of movement and a Bard is better. That's ok, those are differences in balance that are overall fair and add to class uniqueness. Every class has it's role to fill as it should. However when it can't fill that role correctly there is a problem.

quoting you here to back me up.
"I will admit that MNK isn't as good as some other jobs when it comes to solo play, due to being highly dependent on positional combos and having trouble chaining targets effectively."
That is the annoying difference I'm talking about. There are things that aren't working with the class. It's solo, it's the easiest part of the game, just monk kinda fumbles the ball when it comes to this. Why is this(GL and positioning based attacks, but more rhetorical question here)? And why shouldn't SE look to improve part of their game?
You would agree that GL is what makes up the difference (and pushes over the top) for monk dps right? That if GL did not exist at all, that monk would be on the bottom of the pile?
GL is a non-factor while solo, leaving for a bad experience in a lot of places.

And going from 1-20 is not a lot of solo experience, sorry but it's not
and if I want to point out a true contradiction, I'll just quote you talking about friends/groups exp again and the BG win. Reminds me of WoW guild fanboys a bit but in reverse "OH this guild didn't use a druid for world first, druids must suck!"

[NoctisUmbra]

And going from 1-20 is not a lot of solo experience, sorry but it's not
and if I want to point out a true contradiction, I'll just quote you talking about friends/groups exp again and the BG win. Reminds me of WoW guild fanboys a bit but in reverse "OH this guild didn't use a druid for world first, druids must suck!"

Do not confuse me pointing out examples of MNK being involved in high-caliber content as a viable option to refute any claims of MNK being an incapable DPS as my trying to suggest that as concrete evidence to MNK being amazing.

When someone suggests that something is impossible, you only need to show 1 case of it being possible to refute their claim.

That being said, yes suggesting that a class/job sucks because a top guild did not use it for a world first is nonsensical.

However, suggesting that a class/job is viable because a top guild did in fact use it for a world first is not nonsensical. It is not sufficient, but it does in fact support the assertion.

That's not what that is, Your confusing the big picture with some of the steps in between. The scientific method is just the steps needed, it's the large steps in between cutting down variables is part of it, but it is not it. Familiarize yourself with it.

it's basically, Idea -> What you think will happen-> Test -> What did/didnt happen-> Ta-dA!

I'm not going to argue semantics with you. Seriously, you seem to have some obsession with me at this point.

I am referring to the testing phase. You cannot meaningfully test something without holding outside variables constant.

[DerpyCubone]

Do not confuse me pointing out examples of MNK being involved in high-caliber content as a viable option to refute any claims of MNK being an incapable DPS as my trying to suggest that as concrete evidence to MNK being amazing.

When someone suggests that something is impossible, you only need to show 1 case of it being possible to refute their claim.

That being said, yes suggesting that a class/job sucks because a top guild did not use it for a world first is nonsensical.

However, suggesting that a class/job is viable because a top guild did in fact use it for a world first is not nonsensical. It is not sufficient, but it does in fact support the assertion.

*For that fight, not all aspects of the game
Kinda left that part out there I think

Also... who said anything about anything being impossible? I don't think anyone mentioned that at all? Could you please point that out where it was said? I might have missed it.

Added thoughts:
"However, suggesting that a class/job is viable because a top guild did in fact use it for a world first is not nonsensical. It is not sufficient, but it does in fact support the assertion." No one is claiming monk isn't viable, those are your words, not mine. I think monk "DPS numbers and raid role" are fine. That has nothing to do with this... so your point... well there isn't one at all really.

Me: Monk needs tweaking to be a little more solo friendly and fun to play/flow better on certain fights
You: Monk DPS is fine, They are viable raiders

You see how those aren't the same?

[Ranka]

1) Ya I agree with this one.
2) Do not agree with this really, because with using your skills/global cooldowns optimally you can put it up again by the time.
3) This one I can agree with lowering the cooldown, but maybe to 90 seconds same as BfB.
4) No hard feeling son this one.
5) No don't change this, monk is the only class that can solo silence ADS. Do not needs to change that.
6) Do not mind either way.
7) I just dont like the tp cost of it, everything else is fine.

[Rochetm]

I seem to be playing a different job then everyone else...

See also: Leave monk alone.