Monks very weak. Need rebalance

[EasymodeX]

I parse 180-185 on a static fight with a GC50 weapon. Monks shit out tons of damage even if they use a stupid easy simplified approach to the fight. Parsed 160-165 on Titan (so goddamn many GL3 drops because of transitions) with AK gear, DL accessories, and the GC50 weap.

I want to punch all the 95-dps-on-Titan-with-Garuda-weapon Monks in the face.

[pandabearcat]

Hi all, I wanted to challenge the idea of monks having low AoE damage.

A bard, has a 110 potency skill that costs 120? tp. Since they have about 10% less weapon damage, that puts them at around 100 potency skill per target for 120 TP (normalized).

Rockbreaker is 130 potency for 110 TP, usable only on coerl form. You also have 21% increased damage from GL3, and 10% from twin snakes. thats 173 potency skill per target for 110 TP.

We'll ignore the 10% from dragon kick because its likely not on all targets (though you can definitely multitarget).

Since you have to get back up to coerl, i'm going to assume you tab target dragon kick, then twin snakes to keep it up for a total of 120 TP for 290 potency (with buffs, 424.5, including Dkick), one target.

In one rotation of ~6 seconds, bards get 2 GCDs, you get ~3.


You do a total of 424.5 + 173*n to n targets, for 230 TP.
Bards do 220*n to n targets, for 240 TP.

Roughly same TP cost.

So lets extrapolate. At what N do bards do more dps? Solving the equation gets us 9 targets.

But wait, what happens if we use Arm instead? We will run out of TP faster, but Arm does 66.5*n.

We now do 240*n + 205 potency, for 310 TP. Ouch.

At what TP (since TP is the cap for all DoW, instead of raw damage output) is Arm worth it?

Well based on this, and solving, we have ...54 targets. So NEVER use Arm, got it? XD

So more than 9 targets, Bard is more dps. Based on that figure, you realize quickly that while bards have a bit more DPS, its not that reason that they bring them.

They bring them for the songs.

Monks are fully capable of AoE dps. They might not be the best, but the reason they bring a bard is because of songs. And the reason they bring BLM is because they are the ONLY class not restrained by a resource. Which is RIDICULOUSLY broken in ways that one would hope the devs will fix in later patches.

[EasymodeX]

Bonus points for Howling Fist and/or Perfect Balance Rockbreaker spam.

[Onyxys]

pandabearcat, monk's AoE are in rotation. Yes, monk has Howling_fist with 60 seconds CD and almost useless because of the very low damage and ROTATION AotD (silence nice, but rotation). Bards can AoE NON-STOP and sing a song for TP regeneration and can cast fire-round an the ground. Forget this?

Do you remember Castrum? Who do you like to see in there- many monks or many bards+blackmages? Answer is simple

[pandabearcat]

snip

This "AoE nonstop" vs "AoE on rotation" fallacy is, well, a fallacy. The numbers are there. Just because you are not doing constant AoE damage doesn't mean that you are, well, not doing AoE damage.

I didn't use any cooldowns in my model. Again, I showed that bards do more AoE dps only at more than 9 targets.

While that does happen, its not a massively huge gain as you would expect.

Also if they sing TP, their damage is lowered by 20%, making their AoE damage worse, bar none.

Furthermore, since we are constrained by TP usage, bards actually only outTP-efficiency monks at 13 targets and above.

PS i forgot flaming arrow though =( So that is one thing that will work against you.

But again the point is that your AoE is far from useless, and also is pretty much more efficient than bard AoE as well.

Sure you bring BLM, but again, that is because BLM are overpowered.

[EasymodeX]

The more important difference is that Bards can hit Hawkeye and Raging Strikes in addition to the other cooldowns when they AOE spam.

FA can be roughly set aside in the same bucket as Howling Fist.

[Onyxys]

pandabearcat, another example about Wonderer's palace. For fast run everyone is looking for bards and blackmages because of good damage AoE. Noone looking for monks. Your numbers and other maths are nice, but game shows us another information about AoE_class_popularity. And it is not only popularity- it is a REAL experience of players. The best AoE classes are bards and blackmages

[EasymodeX]

Bard isn't chosen for WP speed runs for AOE. They're there for mana song and resist debuff.

[Sterob]

snip

yes because some people prefer a class for lv 55 dungeon you should nerf that class. Oh wait people prefer pld, white mage and scholar for all dungeon, better nerf them.

[Onyxys]

yes because some people prefer a class for lv 55 dungeon you should nerf that class. Oh wait people prefer pld, white mage and scholar for all dungeon, better nerf them.

All I know monk is not an AoE class- it is obviously. But someone want to say, that monk is a good AoE class. Realy? Im sure it is not