Monks very weak. Need rebalance

[Naalya-Deix]

Makes me laugh cause you are speaking to a computer architect. So I'm used to math and so. Furthermore, all of the math in your post, I've done it way before most of them during Beta 2. I have a google drive with lot of documents for my Monk mates. You're speaking to a "convinced by number man" and may my words are misleading about it sorry 'bout that. I'm not saying that bards is top DPS by "theorical" numbers, but effectively (Empirical and experiment = As you said, boss mechanics, randomness of some Monk buff, melee situation make us very not favoured for most of bosses ...). ... ".

Again, I know if I stuck to a dummy I'll do more than bard (but not a good SMN I assure you) but this is not the case in end game content and this as to be reworked a little bit (either by adjusting monk drawbacks or game mechanics but ... be careful while doing that cause we are extremely hard to design without bad side effect).

It's like while designing an Information System and a "young" engineer tells me : "ho you know, this is better to do this mathematically". I'll often answer : "Experiment and years teaches you often something else than theorical best practices because you don't want side effect or you prefer to secure the whole system".

[Ryougi]

.. Years and experience teach fine, but you are still only providing -one- example, in a -specific- case, and ignoring the literally, dozens of other fights and variables. That's.. not very empirical. Just because that's YOUR experience, with YOUR fc, does not equate to it being raw fact without some sort of proof other than "this is how it is for me!"

[Leraje]

Personally i think Monk is the strongest DPS if he/she is played by someone who is good at playing him/her and has some decent gear to support the damage.
Sure because of the required positions and always to be on the move to evade any AOEs it's hard to play the Monk. But nobody should because of that say the Monk damage is lower than any other Range DPS. If you do less damage than a Range DPS your gear either is worser or you just suck at playing the class
Another note ^^
Every DPS should first of all make the relic +1 and shouldn't waste any myths for his other gear. Because Weapon Damage > the rest of the stats in different order.
I'm not implying that anyone here did it wrong but a dragoon from my fc bought at the start some pieces of his AF2 gear and is still missing his +1 relic.

[Risbyn]

But please, do Turn 5 before saying Monk (melee in general) are good. HAHA.

Turn 5 monk here! Been on turn 5 for longer than you most certainly. We run DRG, MNK, BLM, WHM, SCH, PLD, PLD. We get to twister phase everytime with dreadknights. So yes, Monks (melee) in general are good. We can burst down Conflags with 3 stacks. I can eat a fireball with 2 people stacked with me. I've recently stepped down as the primary Monk for progression because I can't dedicate the time anymore. Our FC replaced me with... another FC Monk. Bard is on bottom when it comes to DPS. I can goof and still beat our FC Bards. And our turn 5 Bards on are no slouches either. We don't carry anyone. We demand the highest out of our progression group. If you don't perform, you're out.

You suggesting that melee cannot perform as well as Bards in coil is preposterous. Based on anecdotal evidence no less, despite the large amounts of evidence to the contrary. Well, I've provided my own anecdotal evidence by your own admission that we needed to be on turn 5 to suggest Monk is "good"

Edit: Also we destroy Turn 4, it's like fighting trash mobs now. Saying that Bards can solo a Knight on wave 5 isn't saying much being as they are out of range and can kite. The dreadnaughts aren't even hitting the tanks hard with 0 stacks so the bard can be healed. If I wanted to be a MP sponge, I could solo a knight too. Hell, our BLM can solo his soldier. Using the visual confirmation that "My bard can solo a knight" is laughable as anything when it comes to actually suggesting that it's any kind of DPS measure.

[Naalya-Deix]

.. Years and experience teach fine, but you are still only providing -one- example, in a -specific- case, and ignoring the literally, dozens of other fights and variables. That's.. not very empirical. Just because that's YOUR experience, with YOUR fc, does not equate to it being raw fact without some sort of proof other than "this is how it is for me!"

Find me some monks that are taken in FC groups for turn 5 buddy ! .

EDIT : Ris is. Well, there are other forums / post where you find videos where you see SO FEW monks ... If you do fine there, yeah it's OKAY, but not optimal as far as we are considering the thing ... prefering SMN for example.

[EasymodeX]

Umm, how is it surprising that a Bard, who has 5 damage cooldowns, can burst a single target Knight effectively compared to other classes who have fewer damage cooldowns ... specifically a Monk who may drop GL between phase 1 and 2 depending on timing?

[neoreturn]

No one says monk DPS is on the bottom, and no other class agree monk DPS is on the top either. when I play with other dps, my DPS is aways on the top, so what? You are not doing some DPS 30 or 50% higher than others. I have also played with lots of other monks and their DPS is aways on the bottom. From DPS point of view monk DPS is ok, if you doing good, you can be on top, if you doing bad you will on the bottom. Same to all other class. Monk is hard to play and without advantage. monk isn't popular and hard to find group which SE should give monk some help. monk will be at even worse situation when pvp coming if monk can't do any burst Dmg.

[Galand]

Just buff GL duration, in its current state i feel like its our biggest problem

[Allyrion]

You are not doing some DPS 30 or 50% higher than others.

Is anyone really saying that? At most, I've seen that monks are some of the highest parsers (or highest). I've never seen anyone claiming to do 30% or 50% or even 20% the damage of another class. That just means SE's balance isn't a complete joke.

Monk doesn't need to be popular. Monk doesn't need to be easy either.
I don't believe we need a dps increase for all our trouble. Play monk if you want a challenge, and that's a good enough reason to make the effort.
If you're good, then you can be on the top even if GL3 falls off sometimes. That's all that matters.
Monks aren't gimped, and good monks shine. No one is calling for monk nerfs so I don't really see what you're defending.
What you've just said came off as monks are in a good place. At least that's how I read it.

Maybe because I have no interest in PvP.

[AccountBanned]

As a monk that has played pug/mnk since this game came out...Monk damage seems to be either middle of the road to above average when compared to the damage that other classes/jobs are putting out during actual fights. I'm not testing on a stationary wooden dummy because nothing in this game fights like that.

In actual fights, middle of the road to slightly above....which I'm fine with.

Bard does well as everyone knows and Blackmages seem to enjoy the top damage in real fights.

By the way...I love the people that say "Monks damage is awesome.......if they just utilize a bunch of skills from other classes"

It's a fun job for me to play though and I don't plan on playing another class seriously...but I am very interested in the upgrades coming to help them preform better in actual fights when compared to other jobs.