Monks very weak. Need rebalance

[hyachona]

I am sure if bard DPS is on the top, but if you watch team threaten order. bard is very easy on the top after tank. Many poor MNKs are aways on the bottom.

Only if the monk is bad which I'll say again you should reroll or stop spouting bs you know nothing about.

[Soukyuu]

About the only person who comes above me (except tank) is a SMN with relic+1 and AF1.5 gear, and ONLY if they're using fester.
I have my relic+1 and partial DL. It takes you a while to "start up", don't forget to keep DoTs up and you should be fine.

I see so many monks having troubles with their rotations and saying monk is so hard to play/too much work... honestly, I don't see it. Nor are they weak.

[pandabearcat]

There is no way in hell bard is top except on extremely movement heavy fights.

Dragoon is simming ~5% higher base potency wise, and that is without the bard's 10% hit on weapon damage.

I don't know monk enough to comment, and I don't have a good idea of DoM vs DoW atm, but at the very least perfect rotation DRG is better than perfect rotation bard.

Later in the week I will likely modify the sim so that it can handle random and fixed duration/time (normal distributed) downtimes to model melee more realistically.

[Passive]

To be top dps as a monk there are a few things you need to be aware of:
1) Gear - Just like every other class the gear you have is very important.
2) Rotation & Practice with said rotation - Knowing what skills to use and when and what buffs to use and when and keeping up with the DoTs as a monk is a crucial part of them being Top dps.
3) Movement Heavy Fights - if the fight involves avoiding aoes from bosses then it is going to affect the dps of the monk and even dragoons dmg during the fight.

[raikage]

I'm always on top of any raid I do me other my smn friend.

[KaosPrimeZero]

MNK's main issue is the complete loss of GL3. Thie should be tiered. Or if they still refrain from making it a decay loss of GL i.e. 3 > 2 > 1 then certain abilities like Steal Peak, Shoulder tackle should grant 1 charge of GL. As it stands primal fights running to next mobs will always be a huge dps drain on MNK. Yoshi said slight changes are heading to MNK so lets hope that it is something related to GL. As for Haymaker, in 1.0 it used to be my most loved ability, but MNK was also able to tank in 1.0 (yes it tanked primals) but in 2.0 it doesnt have that utility sadly so maybe a rethink of its application?

Either way if MNK is able to maintain DoT's fairly well, and maintain GL3, they damage goes through the roof. As previously stated, MNK is stat based more than others and gear will really make the difference if topping the dps parser is your thing but seeing as how unreliable they are, should they be?

[Naalya-Deix]

Funny how people say "I'm the top of any on my raid". What means "the top" for ya ? What visual information or parsing information show this to you ? Parsers are WRONG at least as far as FFXIVAPP is concerned.

- He misses some hits
- He transfers DoT's damage and count it for some other people in your raid (including you, so if you're lucky with the parser, you'll be doing SMN DoT's damage ...)

I told a bard in our FC can deal ALONE with knight P5 in turn 4 (before drill). I can't do the same burst he does so often. And please, do turn 4 without bard PT song and come back to me for being "top DPS". Also, Monk AoE is "fair", but far behind BRD one. So yeah, a BRD even with song that know how to optimize CDs / Phases and skills will be TOP with SMN visually speaking. Unless on boss and without AoE, Monk can compete which happens on turn 1 & 2, certainly not 4 and 5, not Ifrit, titan depends. And all of this to a higher cost.
BEWARE, I'm not saying we don't do DPS at all. I DO, but as not so often as mentionned jobs and I KNOW with BiS Crit / Det I'll rocket them in the ass pushing my DPS up in the sky.

As for DRG discussion, there is no point to discuss, we personnaly take only one melee for LB and it's often a DRG to bring 10% to our bards mainly even if we are not silly and Monks play also.
Also, Mantra is a useless joke and this is the only group "advantage" for us to be selected.

But please, do Turn 5 before saying Monk (melee in general) are good. HAHA.

[Ryougi]

I told a bard in our FC can deal ALONE with knight P5 in turn 4 (before drill). I can't do the same burst he does so often. And please, do turn 4 without bard PT song and come back to me for being "top DPS".

Really wish you would stop tauting this like it's some sort of MASSIVE DPS ACCOMPLISHMENT

Bard dps

a.) Ranged! meaning they don't have to deal with defense
b.) Mobile! So they can do it while kiting, all day!
c.) Position free! So they can pewpew while they kite and not suffer dps loss for it!
D.) Simple. 5 buttons! two of which is only hit on procs, two of which are 24 second dots! (No, serious, two dots, venom/windbite, bloodletter only when the dots reset it's cooldown, Straight shot for buff, the nyou spam heavy shot until the auto-crit straight shot procs. It's not hard. at all.)

Couple with the fact that they have raging strikes for short (but hard), burst, compared to the wind-up, position-heavy, melee-centric dps of Monks.

Yes, they're going to be able to do things we can't, not because their dps is higher, but because their dps requires less effort. They can do full dps while running around and not lose a step, they can do full dps while 30 ylm away and not have to worry about getting hit. In the situation you keep saying is proof of their AMAZING dps, all of those factors lead to the bard having an easier time handling the situation, but that != higher dps, it just equals biased fight mechanics

Moreover, DPS is fight-long, not a 15 second burst during raging strikes. Js.

[Naalya-Deix]

You are misunderstanding the complete meanings of my words. I said we are top DPS if planets are aligned, which never happens in end game and if you put a step in Coil turn 5 yet, you know what I'm talking about.
Fact is : tank and spank fight doesn't exist right now and bad design mechanics make other job higher in DPS than us overall OR as my FC mates are saying right now "monk at the top overall are playing with bad players".

[Ryougi]

You are misunderstanding the complete meanings of my words. I said we are top DPS if planets are aligned, which never happens in end game and if you put a step in Coil turn 5 yet, you know what I'm talking about.
Fact is : tank and spank fight doesn't exist right now and bad design mechanics make other job higher in DPS than us overall OR as my FC mates are saying right now "monk at the top overall are playing with bad players".

.. or the other way around? PLenty of people are regularly topping dps by perfecting rotations, getting movement patterns to rote, there are ways around the melee unfriendliness. But Bards are NOT the highest dps, they're below both BLM's AND Summoners, if we're discounting melee altogether. This is evident by simple numbers. the highest potency bard ability is 150. Fire I is above that with AF3, Fire III is waaay above that, Dots stack above that easily for summoners too.'


As you noted, the parser is broken, but there are ways to test it in a sterile environment, find a dummies, don't aoe. you won't get any miscounted dots, as theres no targets to attribute tehm to but you, the abilities not counted by the parser are well known and documented. Is it perfect? no. But the fact stands bards have NO uncounted abilities and average 30%dps lower than monks, with Summoners nearing monks themselves, -before- pets.

Not that it matter, bards are easy to play, and bring an important role to a group (songs), so even if they do tank-level dps, they're viable.

TLDR; Not trying to bust your balls or anything, but what you're providing with that example is called Anecdotal Evidence, that is, evidence that's essentially hearsay. "you know a guy who can..." -- that is , you are using a story, with no hard facts, about a very specific example, in a very specific scenario, and going "This disproves all other theories and evidence."

Science, math, none of those work that way. Anecdotal evidence is only valid in cases where empirical evidence is hard, or difficult to obtain (As is often the case in criminal investigations, if there wasn't a recording or evidence, you are stuck basing the investigation off the words of those who witnessed it.)

In this case, both this thread and the monk temple thread have pages of posts mathing out the individual viabiity of each stat, and the P/S of monk rotations, there's a post with a spreadsheet simulator that simulates bard P/s and dps in a vacuum, comparing those two alone is enough to provide hard evidence to refute your claim, but you can go a step further, these forums are alight with people sharing techniques, posting videos o them mastering fights so the simple movement requirements of a monk CAN be mastered. The parser not good enough for you? the faults, follies, and un-recorded skills of the parser are well documented, plenty of people have put a large amount of effort into fguring out how to adjust for inflation/loss from the parsers bugs to get accurate ballpark numbers (Solo, on dummies, counting the ticks/potency/average damage of skills that aren't counted and manually adding them, etc.) -- which FURTHER supports the evidence.

Your story is the story of YOUR fc, and YOUR experience, but nowhere, outside of "bards can solo one of the adds when really well geared!" do you provide any proof that bards are superior to ALL OTHER CLASSES in dps, or as you say, "near the top.", nor that only "bad parties say monk is the best dps."

Stories can be made up, numbers, numbers don't lie.

Also: I'm really bad at tldring.