Monks very weak. Need rebalance

[Naalya-Deix]

Funny how people say "I'm the top of any on my raid". What means "the top" for ya ? What visual information or parsing information show this to you ? Parsers are WRONG at least as far as FFXIVAPP is concerned.

- He misses some hits
- He transfers DoT's damage and count it for some other people in your raid (including you, so if you're lucky with the parser, you'll be doing SMN DoT's damage ...)

I told a bard in our FC can deal ALONE with knight P5 in turn 4 (before drill). I can't do the same burst he does so often. And please, do turn 4 without bard PT song and come back to me for being "top DPS". Also, Monk AoE is "fair", but far behind BRD one. So yeah, a BRD even with song that know how to optimize CDs / Phases and skills will be TOP with SMN visually speaking. Unless on boss and without AoE, Monk can compete which happens on turn 1 & 2, certainly not 4 and 5, not Ifrit, titan depends. And all of this to a higher cost.
BEWARE, I'm not saying we don't do DPS at all. I DO, but as not so often as mentionned jobs and I KNOW with BiS Crit / Det I'll rocket them in the ass pushing my DPS up in the sky.

As for DRG discussion, there is no point to discuss, we personnaly take only one melee for LB and it's often a DRG to bring 10% to our bards mainly even if we are not silly and Monks play also.
Also, Mantra is a useless joke and this is the only group "advantage" for us to be selected.

But please, do Turn 5 before saying Monk (melee in general) are good. HAHA.

[Ryougi]

I told a bard in our FC can deal ALONE with knight P5 in turn 4 (before drill). I can't do the same burst he does so often. And please, do turn 4 without bard PT song and come back to me for being "top DPS".

Really wish you would stop tauting this like it's some sort of MASSIVE DPS ACCOMPLISHMENT

Bard dps

a.) Ranged! meaning they don't have to deal with defense
b.) Mobile! So they can do it while kiting, all day!
c.) Position free! So they can pewpew while they kite and not suffer dps loss for it!
D.) Simple. 5 buttons! two of which is only hit on procs, two of which are 24 second dots! (No, serious, two dots, venom/windbite, bloodletter only when the dots reset it's cooldown, Straight shot for buff, the nyou spam heavy shot until the auto-crit straight shot procs. It's not hard. at all.)

Couple with the fact that they have raging strikes for short (but hard), burst, compared to the wind-up, position-heavy, melee-centric dps of Monks.

Yes, they're going to be able to do things we can't, not because their dps is higher, but because their dps requires less effort. They can do full dps while running around and not lose a step, they can do full dps while 30 ylm away and not have to worry about getting hit. In the situation you keep saying is proof of their AMAZING dps, all of those factors lead to the bard having an easier time handling the situation, but that != higher dps, it just equals biased fight mechanics

Moreover, DPS is fight-long, not a 15 second burst during raging strikes. Js.

[Naalya-Deix]

You are misunderstanding the complete meanings of my words. I said we are top DPS if planets are aligned, which never happens in end game and if you put a step in Coil turn 5 yet, you know what I'm talking about.
Fact is : tank and spank fight doesn't exist right now and bad design mechanics make other job higher in DPS than us overall OR as my FC mates are saying right now "monk at the top overall are playing with bad players".

[Ryougi]

You are misunderstanding the complete meanings of my words. I said we are top DPS if planets are aligned, which never happens in end game and if you put a step in Coil turn 5 yet, you know what I'm talking about.
Fact is : tank and spank fight doesn't exist right now and bad design mechanics make other job higher in DPS than us overall OR as my FC mates are saying right now "monk at the top overall are playing with bad players".

.. or the other way around? PLenty of people are regularly topping dps by perfecting rotations, getting movement patterns to rote, there are ways around the melee unfriendliness. But Bards are NOT the highest dps, they're below both BLM's AND Summoners, if we're discounting melee altogether. This is evident by simple numbers. the highest potency bard ability is 150. Fire I is above that with AF3, Fire III is waaay above that, Dots stack above that easily for summoners too.'


As you noted, the parser is broken, but there are ways to test it in a sterile environment, find a dummies, don't aoe. you won't get any miscounted dots, as theres no targets to attribute tehm to but you, the abilities not counted by the parser are well known and documented. Is it perfect? no. But the fact stands bards have NO uncounted abilities and average 30%dps lower than monks, with Summoners nearing monks themselves, -before- pets.

Not that it matter, bards are easy to play, and bring an important role to a group (songs), so even if they do tank-level dps, they're viable.

TLDR; Not trying to bust your balls or anything, but what you're providing with that example is called Anecdotal Evidence, that is, evidence that's essentially hearsay. "you know a guy who can..." -- that is , you are using a story, with no hard facts, about a very specific example, in a very specific scenario, and going "This disproves all other theories and evidence."

Science, math, none of those work that way. Anecdotal evidence is only valid in cases where empirical evidence is hard, or difficult to obtain (As is often the case in criminal investigations, if there wasn't a recording or evidence, you are stuck basing the investigation off the words of those who witnessed it.)

In this case, both this thread and the monk temple thread have pages of posts mathing out the individual viabiity of each stat, and the P/S of monk rotations, there's a post with a spreadsheet simulator that simulates bard P/s and dps in a vacuum, comparing those two alone is enough to provide hard evidence to refute your claim, but you can go a step further, these forums are alight with people sharing techniques, posting videos o them mastering fights so the simple movement requirements of a monk CAN be mastered. The parser not good enough for you? the faults, follies, and un-recorded skills of the parser are well documented, plenty of people have put a large amount of effort into fguring out how to adjust for inflation/loss from the parsers bugs to get accurate ballpark numbers (Solo, on dummies, counting the ticks/potency/average damage of skills that aren't counted and manually adding them, etc.) -- which FURTHER supports the evidence.

Your story is the story of YOUR fc, and YOUR experience, but nowhere, outside of "bards can solo one of the adds when really well geared!" do you provide any proof that bards are superior to ALL OTHER CLASSES in dps, or as you say, "near the top.", nor that only "bad parties say monk is the best dps."

Stories can be made up, numbers, numbers don't lie.

Also: I'm really bad at tldring.

[Risbyn]

But please, do Turn 5 before saying Monk (melee in general) are good. HAHA.

Turn 5 monk here! Been on turn 5 for longer than you most certainly. We run DRG, MNK, BLM, WHM, SCH, PLD, PLD. We get to twister phase everytime with dreadknights. So yes, Monks (melee) in general are good. We can burst down Conflags with 3 stacks. I can eat a fireball with 2 people stacked with me. I've recently stepped down as the primary Monk for progression because I can't dedicate the time anymore. Our FC replaced me with... another FC Monk. Bard is on bottom when it comes to DPS. I can goof and still beat our FC Bards. And our turn 5 Bards on are no slouches either. We don't carry anyone. We demand the highest out of our progression group. If you don't perform, you're out.

You suggesting that melee cannot perform as well as Bards in coil is preposterous. Based on anecdotal evidence no less, despite the large amounts of evidence to the contrary. Well, I've provided my own anecdotal evidence by your own admission that we needed to be on turn 5 to suggest Monk is "good"

Edit: Also we destroy Turn 4, it's like fighting trash mobs now. Saying that Bards can solo a Knight on wave 5 isn't saying much being as they are out of range and can kite. The dreadnaughts aren't even hitting the tanks hard with 0 stacks so the bard can be healed. If I wanted to be a MP sponge, I could solo a knight too. Hell, our BLM can solo his soldier. Using the visual confirmation that "My bard can solo a knight" is laughable as anything when it comes to actually suggesting that it's any kind of DPS measure.