SCH DPS > SMN DPS?

[azethoth]

Bane is something a sch cant have access too and is even better if your spread with contagion,the ability too spread that amount of damage with only needing too setup on 1 target not only does a ton of damage but also lets you..yes spam more ruins then you could if you had too dot everyone one of them individually.
so any questions?

Actually yes. Did you just say a SCH does not get Bane?


EDIT:
As for ACN vs SMN. I tested a while back and ACN dots > SMN dots because of Aero. Carbunkle was ~20 damage less at the time than Garuda for their 3 second skill. Back when I had ~404 int on my ACN, ACN Dots were ~100 more damage a tick, more so with Internal Release and RS, saw dot crits in the area of ~500 a tick. I do not have Blood for Blood yet, too lazy to get 2 more levels on DRG.
Honestly I wish SMN could sub CNJ for aero. Note the tool tip says SMN can use it. Aero constant up time should be greater than anything RS can provide. I would honestly Prefer Blood for Blood as it has a lower cool down.

[Swick]

Lol? Aero is going to do ~20 DPS. Pets are 60(min) to 90~100(for me)



And then you realize ACN has no access to relic/AF2, can't realistically get the Allagan tome(so BiS is Garuda/Titan), has 15 less base INT, no Garuda(Contagion, mostly)/Spur/Fester/Enkindle. Also, you lose Swiftcast as a CCS because you need the 5 slots for CDs/Thunder/Aero.

ACN is probably lower, or equal, to SCH.

Aero is more then 20 DPS, i'm pretty sure anyway. I never apply it by itself so im not sure how much it ticks for. And yes TBF you do lose out on all of your AF2, BUT on paper it is possible to be in full allagan gear as a Arcanist. And since Shining Emerald equals Contagion (Although if you wanna get nitty gritty Shining Emerald is better since it'll extend all your DoTs while under more Offensive CDs making Blood for blood a permanent effect as well as Internal Release) You only lose 15 int from your base job stats.

So all you really lose out on is Fester (Which hurts) Spur (kinda sucks but not a huuuuge deal you still get rouse at least) and Enkindle (which is pretty terrible in terms of DPS, great in burst situations obviously tho)

But you gain a perma 20% dmg boost to your DoTs, as well as a perma 20% crit increase to all your DoTs. An extra DoT in Aero which falls under the before mentioned buffs. Those two factors may also make Miasma II worth using as well but don't feel like doing the math on that one.

You also don't lose Swiftcast, in fact you gain 5 more cross class abilities since you lack a job crystal meaning you could bring:

Aero, Thunder, Blood for Blood, Internal Release, Swift cast, Raging Strikes, Quelling Strike, Stoneskin, Sure cast or w/e they want. After the first 6 the others really don't matter.

I honestly think Arcanist will be better then Summoner when all is said and done. Especially once more classes are added to better make use of those extra 4 cross class skills.

EDIT: Its not a perma BFB and IR idk why i thought it was. Its damn close tho.

[Kevee]

Aero will be ~20-25 DPS, maybe 30.

I honestly think Arcanist will be better then Summoner when all is said and done. Especially once more classes are added to better make use of those extra 4 cross class skills.

I will "agree"(until we can really parse things) if you have full allagan/ilvl 70 crafted+allagan tome. This is iffy, though, because RS in total is about a ~3% DPS gain. BFB will be a little bit more, and I think IR would be about equal. Fester is 55-60 DPS. Even a 10% gain won't make up that difference.


Yes, I realized you can still get Swiftcast. I forgot Classes get double the CCS that Jobs do. I haven't been a class in forever. Thank you for pointing it out, though, if anyone is reading this and trying to theorycraft.

EDIT: Its not a perma BFB and IR idk why i thought it was. Its damn close tho.

You could rotate the CDs and have perma-CD'd DoTs running. Almost. If only RS was 120s CD for everyone, and 90s for BRD/ARC.

[Swick]

Aero will be ~20-25 DPS, maybe 30.
I will "agree"(until we can really parse things) if you have full allagan/ilvl 70 crafted+allagan tome. This is iffy, though, because RS in total is about a ~3% DPS gain. BFB will be a little bit more, and I think IR would be about equal. Fester is 55-60 DPS. Even a 10% gain won't make up that difference.

Yes, I realized you can still get Swiftcast. I forgot Classes get double the CCS that Jobs do. I haven't been a class in forever. Thank you for pointing it out, though, if anyone is reading this and trying to theorycraft.

You could rotate the CDs and have perma-CD'd DoTs running. Almost. If only RS was 120s CD for everyone, and 90s for BRD/ARC.

Yea Aero hits for ~100 on my SCH, and ticks for about 50 so ~25 dps is accurate (mostly DL and no i90 mind you.) Although for the whole Arcanist vs SMN thing its still a pure DPS increase and at the least would make up the difference between Energy drain vs Fester, or close too. Especially since aero too would be hit by shining emerald/DPS buffs.

If you rotated i'm positive you could always have one buff up at all times once you account for Shining Emerald. Maybe not on Aero or Bio since they have base short durrations but the longer ones for sure. Either way its something to think about in the future. And imo would be shameful if true.

[AylaYukihana]

Yea Aero hits for ~100 on my SCH, and ticks for about 50 so ~25 dps is accurate (mostly DL and no i90 mind you.) Although for the whole Arcanist vs SMN thing its still a pure DPS increase and at the least would make up the difference between Energy drain vs Fester, or close too. Especially since aero too would be hit by shining emerald/DPS buffs.

If you rotated i'm positive you could always have one buff up at all times once you account for Shining Emerald. Maybe not on Aero or Bio since they have base short durrations but the longer ones for sure. Either way its something to think about in the future. And imo would be shameful if true.

Its been said already, its the way the Job system work, especially for SMN (and BLM), it adds very little above the base Class.. but even removes options for good cross class skills. In the SMN's case, Arcanist (due to extra skills) could actually OUT-DPS it while using Energy Drain for extra MP.

[Kevee]

Energy drain vs Fester, or close too. Especially since aero too would be hit by shining emerald/DPS buffs.

Yeah, that's why I "agree."

The limiting factor is gear, though. BiS for ACN, realistically, is Titan/Garuda/Crafted Book.

[Devaking55]

One word....fester.

Your dmg is now far superior to a scholars.....forget spur and enkindle >.>(end sarcasm)

[Swick]

Yeah, that's why I "agree."

The limiting factor is gear, though. BiS for ACN, realistically, is Titan/Garuda/Crafted Book.

ATM yes, but eventually the allagan book will become realistic. And thats when u gotta start wondering.

[pandabearcat]

One word....fester.

Your dmg is now far superior to a scholars.....forget spur and enkindle >.>(end sarcasm)

This isn't really true.

Fester over a minute is 900 potency, energy drain (not even counting its awesome mp bonus) is 450.

450 potency difference over a minute is around 7.5 pps difference.

With our base pps in the 90's, this is around an 8% dps boost.

Which is covered by cleric stance, just about.

It is the pet, and the pet ONLY, that pushes SMNs to be better. (oh and gear to an extent, since we dont' "waste" offpoints into piety...though I would love some more piety on my SMN D=)

People need to stop being hung up on fester. Its good, but its infrequent (relative) use and the fact its not something ridiculous like 1000 potency means its contribution is overstated.

[AylaYukihana]

Fester over a minute is 900 potency, energy drain (not even counting its awesome mp bonus) is 450.
450 potency difference over a minute.

Energy Drain in Cleric Stance is 165 potency, 3 x a minute is 495 potency. Or, the difference of 405 potency versus using 3 x Fester.

Aero is 220 Potency in Cleric Stance. Minus Ruin for a GCD it becomes 140 potency extra over 18s, or ~3 dots per minute, or 140 x 3 = 420 potency over a minute advantage.

Energy Drain + Aero in Cleric Stance already equal to the difference of not having Fester. Then add Cleric Stance boosting the rest of the spells by 10% as well as Selene's aoe dps buff for the group...