SCH DPS > SMN DPS?

[Kevee]

SMNs however, have a DPS pet Which is barely higher then aero DPS.

Lol? Aero is going to do ~20 DPS. Pets are 60(min) to 90~100(for me)

However with all that said, they real question your should be asking yourself is, "Is Arcanist DPS higher then SMN DPS."
Internal Release, Blood for Blood, Raging Strikes, and Aero, on top of shining emerald sounds absolutely disgusting.

And then you realize ACN has no access to relic/AF2, can't realistically get the Allagan tome(so BiS is Garuda/Titan), has 15 less base INT, no Garuda(Contagion, mostly)/Spur/Fester/Enkindle. Also, you lose Swiftcast as a CCS because you need the 5 slots for CDs/Thunder/Aero.

ACN is probably lower, or equal, to SCH.

[GameGeeks]

If you use/cast a DoT, and the debuff lands on the target, while Raging Strikes is present on you, the full duration(and extension with Contagion) will have boosted damage. So SMN goes way beyond the RS timer with boosted DoTs. At a minimum, Bio II has 45 seconds, Bio has 33 seconds, Miasma has 39 seconds, Thunder has 33 seconds, and Miasma II has 30 seconds worth of RS time.

I can understand that being a good thing, but I'm more looking for the data to prove it. Worse case I just get a target dummy and try it. Not like it's hard to get to level four in Archer, especially with armory xp bonus.

And for your last post, Arcanists do have access to Contagion. Just goes by Shinning Emerald. Same effect as Contagion. Though the rest mostly stands in terms of gear.

[Kevee]

I can understand that being a good thing, but I'm more looking for the data to prove it. Worse case I just get a target dummy and try it. Not like it's hard to get to level four in Archer, especially with armory xp bonus.

And for your last post, Arcanists do have access to Contagion. Just goes by Shinning Emerald. Same effect as Contagion. Though the rest mostly stands in terms of gear.

You don't need any data.

That's how DoTs work.

They take a snap-shot of whatever buffs/debuffs you have when you apply them.

Same goes for Cleric Stance, BRD and their DoTs/Buffs, everyone.

And for your last post, Arcanists do have access to Contagion. Just goes by Shinning Emerald. Same effect as Contagion. Though the rest mostly stands in terms of gear.

Yeah, I derped. No reason to edit it now that's it been quoted.

[pandabearcat]

If scholars had an offensive pet, I could see them giving smn a run for its money.

Which btw, is one of the massive flaws of the job system, how the base class determines about 95% of your combat efficacy.

The rest is just the fact you can equip better gear, stats.

But no pet = frown.

Also, whats interesting is, SCH does have a much bigger mana pool, so I can see them being better in instances where the smn is oom.

[AylaYukihana]

If scholars had an offensive pet, I could see them giving smn a run for its money.

IF SCH had an offensive pet they would easily beat SMN. As it is, its not that big a gap.

While SMN can equip Thunder, it uses a lot of MP, twice that of Aero/Bio. I doubt a SMN can sustain that kind of spam with using charges on Fester instead of Enery Drain (165 potency in cleric stance).

[LostCody]

If scholars had an offensive pet, I could see them giving smn a run for its money.
Also, whats interesting is, SCH does have a much bigger mana pool, so I can see them being better in instances where the smn is oom.

even if sch got the same pets as a smn garuda,titan,ifrit then it would be a festerless smn.
fester is 1 of smn best spells and only reliable burst outside of rouse,spur enkindle combo(which is also only available too smn)and over a long fight and even during adds the lack of fester would be noticeable.
even with the combo and fester smn is still lackluster when it comes too burst and it only allows smn too get by barely when it comes down too certain phases were a lot of damage is needed quickly.
so even if what you say is true why would anyone pick a gimped smn who might do more base damage but has a more serious burst problem over lets say a full smn or blm?

[GameGeeks]

You don't need any data.

That's how DoTs work.

They take a snap-shot of whatever buffs/debuffs you have when you apply them.

Same goes for Cleric Stance, BRD and their DoTs/Buffs, everyone.

It does if it's just the first tick. I get how dots work. That's not the issue. The issue is whether or not it does actually last the first dot or just the initial tic. Or if the buff end early even if the dot is still going. Lost of ways they could have programed it to work with dots.

[AylaYukihana]

it would be a festerless smn.
...do more base damage but has a more serious burst problem over lets say a full smn or blm?

Been over this, Aero AND Energy Drain is worth the difference of lacking Fester over a long duration (its even better). If you talk about burst, whats the time scale? 10 seconds? In 10 seconds, 3 energy drain in cleric stance is worth 495 potency, requiring no setup of 3 DoTs to burst. In that time window, a SMN would need 7.5s to setup 3 dots. Fester has a 10s cooldown.

Now how about AOE? SCH dots do 10% extra damage without needing raging strikes. Bane these dots, shadowflare, then tab spam aero. What's a SMN gonna do after Bane/Shadowflare, tab spam Ruin? That is heaps weaker in potency compared to Aero for the same GCD.

Enkindle is nice, but 300s cooldown is too long. Over long term it contributes very little to overall dps.

ps. SMN isn't wanted for burst, if ppl absolutely need short term burst, they go with BLM.

[LostCody]

ps. SMN isn't wanted for burst, if ppl absolutely need short term burst, they go with BLM.
Aero AND Energy Drain is worth the difference of lacking Fester over a long duration (its even better).
3 energy drain in cleric stance is worth 495 potency, requiring no setup of 3 DoTs to burst. In that time window, a SMN would need 7.5s to setup 3 dots. Fester has a 10s cooldown.

lets ignore everything else for a second.
what made you think I said smn is wanted for burst?
I even said twice that smn has pretty bad burst. please actually read my post before giving me a p.s.

so your planning on just using energy drain and aero?your going too setup those dots anyway.
also if what you say is true then 3 energy drains and a aero= 1 fester.
then first off,energy drain is on a 3 sec independent cd so 3=9seconds 1 off from a fester but uses all your aether too equal 1 aether charge of a single fester,which you then can use 2 more times while your 3 other energy drains are waiting for aetherflow for 50 more seconds.
lets go too the best case scenario for your burst,a small weak add like a feather plume or something similar.yeah your right it would burst down the target faster then it would for smn too setup.but anything with more hp,you would do your damage be out of aether then have too setup anyway too finish him off and by that time a smn would have already set up and be on his 2 fester already wrecking your burst.
even if there were no decent hp adds,were there is 1 small add there are many...then what?

Bane is something a sch cant have access too and is even better if your spread with contagion,the ability too spread that amount of damage with only needing too setup on 1 target not only does a ton of damage but also lets you..yes spam more ruins then you could if you had too dot everyone one of them individually.
so any questions?

[Vmage]

It's not that simple. Cleric stance is a 10% boost on all spells.

Its not Fester vs nothing. It's Fester vs Energy Drain, or rather, 300 vs 165 potency (150 x 10% cleric stance).

It's all the DoTs that smn has, as well as Ruin spam, multiplied by 10% and add Aero. Also probably add Thunder too, because with Energy Drain spam, a SCH wont have MP issues and can afford to spam Thunder in the rotation.

Finally, Selene also has a 30% spell speed buff thats up 1/2 the time. Its around a 10% reduction in GCD times.

It all comes down to: is all that enough versus the ~66 dps of Garuda? Probably not.. then factor this: Selene buffs the entire PT's dps by ~10%. Is THAT enough? Probably is!

that's actually not how Selene works...

the tooltip is misleading, it's a 30% skillspeed buff.. as in your spell/skillspeed stat on your character sheet.

if you've got enough gear on to reduce your GCD by .06 seconds, selene will bump that to .08.. it's a tiny tiny tiny buff that's actually outclassed by Eos' aoe regen ala - http://xivdb.com/?skill/90120/Enhanced-Pet-Actions

that spell speed is actually as much as advertised.

more to the point, you should be comparing energy drain to fester, and aero + cleric stance to garuda + raging strikes

those are the only real differences... although the pet alone trumps cleric stance and aero unless we're talking about an aoe situation where bane'd dots have the benefit of cleric stance...

but... a summoner's bane'd dots are going to have the benefit of raging strikes and/or contagion

not sure why you bring up thunder for a scholar and not a summoner though... it's better damage:mp for summoners as well as scholars.. not to mention better dps than ruin spam for both..