Manipulation

[johnbeck1000]

I've come to find my beginning actions on my DoH is, Inner Quiet, Great Strides(3 turns), Steady Hands(5 turns), Waste Not(4 turns)...this leaves me with one turn for Great Strides and 4 for Steady Hands and Waste Not. Although I've come to realization that my rotation of actions change depending on the item "condition". I bypass my steps for any "excellent" condition...

I read a guide to crafting and Waste Not is cheaper in CP than Manipulation...56 for two extra turns or 88 for 3, not much but a couple CP can be the difference between HQ and NQ

[Ksenia]

I've come to find my beginning actions on my DoH is, Inner Quiet, Great Strides(3 turns), Steady Hands(5 turns), Waste Not(4 turns)...this leaves me with one turn for Great Strides and 4 for Steady Hands and Waste Not. Although I've come to realization that my rotation of actions change depending on the item "condition". I bypass my steps for any "excellent" condition...

I read a guide to crafting and Waste Not is cheaper in CP than Manipulation...56 for two extra turns or 88 for 3, not much but a couple CP can be the difference between HQ and NQ

Waste Not does make Manipulation redundant. It seems to be a slightly better option than Masters Mend if Waste Not isn't available to you. If you have ran all craft classes to 15 though it gets put in the dust bin.

[Conradus]

Waste Not does make Manipulation redundant.

Like fun it does. Waste Not is neat, but it's also very limiting. If you don't do a Touch or a Synth every action that it's up, you're throwing away a turn of a rather expensive buff. This is particularly noticeable in 40 Durability synths where you don't have a lot of room to accommodate Waste Not. Waste Not, Manipulation and Master's Mend each have their strengths and weaknesses, and there is a time and a place for each.

[Roth_Trailfinder]

Waste Not does make Manipulation redundant. It seems to be a slightly better option than Masters Mend if Waste Not isn't available to you. If you have ran all craft classes to 15 though it gets put in the dust bin.

I use Waste Not and Manipulation in the same 40 Durability synths all the time.

Inner Quiet
Steady Hand (2)
Waste Not
Hasty Touch
Hasty Touch
Hasty Touch
Hasty Touch
If it takes 2 Synthesis actions, Synthesis here, if only one, Hasty Touch.
Manipulation
Steady Hand (2)
Waste Not
Hasty Touch
Hasty Touch
Hasty Touch
Hasty Touch
Best Touch I've got CP for
Synthesis

I won't use Tricks of the Trade while I've got Steady Hand (2) going, simply because doing so either wastes one charge of Waste Not, or it throws Steady Hand (2) and Waste Not out of synch. At 40, I've got enough CP that I can throw a Basic touch at the end without any Tricks uses.

As long as you know what you are doing, Waste Not and Manipulation complement each other, they do not replace one another.

[Ksenia]

I use Waste Not and Manipulation in the same 40 Durability synths all the time.

As long as you know what you are doing, Waste Not and Manipulation complement each other, they do not replace one another.

Congratulations, you found a use for it.
Most will use Masters Mend and get the same effect, though not over time.

It's still redundant.

[Conradus]

Congratulations, you found a use for it.
Most will use Masters Mend and get the same effect, though not over time.

It's still redundant.

And pay four more CPs? What's more, you can *only* use Master's Mend on a 40 Durability synth when Durability is at 10. That's another limitation. Face it, Manipulation is useful.

[Ksenia]

And pay four more CPs? What's more, you can *only* use Master's Mend on a 40 Durability synth when Durability is at 10. That's another limitation. Face it, Manipulation is useful.

Of course it's useful. I'm a 50 Weaver, I understand having use at various stages. Try completing 1 or 2 star recipes using Careful Synthesis II, then use standard synthesis. That 30% adds up and in a hurry but I'd be the last person to say Careful Synthesis II is useless.

I didn't say Manipulation was useless, I said it was redundant. I spoke an opinion and some how ended up in a bickering war. I apologize, I will never have an opinion again. I ama bad, evil, horrible person who should be thrown to dogs.

Happy?

[Conradus]

I didn't say Manipulation was useless, I said it was redundant.

If something is redundant, then it is useless, because redundant means "performs no function that can't be done as well or better by something else". I do not think I was overly harsh in pointing out that Manipulation has uses that can't be done as well by any other crafting action, but things can get taken too seriously on a forum, and I apologize if you were hurt.

[Yukio]

I'm confused by this ability. "Restores 10 points of durability after each step for the next three steps." What counts as a step, what does not?

To use manipulation and steady hand, do you "waste" a step of one or the other? Is it even worth it then?

Manipulation's restoration kicks in after the step is complete. So...

1. If you use synthesis or touches, it will consume the durability and then add back 10 durability. This is important because if you are at 10 durability, it will bring you to 0 and fail your craft even though you have manipulation up.

2. If you use non-durability consuming steps (i.e. steady hand, tricks of the trade, rumination...) it will first consume 0 durability and then restore 10 durability which gives you a net +10 durability. However, you cannot go above the max durability on the craft.

Unlike waste not, you do not "waste" a regeneration by using a non-durability consuming move unless you are at max durability.

[Yukio]

And pay four more CPs? What's more, you can *only* use Master's Mend on a 40 Durability synth when Durability is at 10. That's another limitation. Face it, Manipulation is useful.

I generally never use Master's Mend I unless I am at 10 durability and I know I will not have CP to do another non-durability consuming move. 4 CP actually makes a huge difference. To put into context, tricks of the trade restores 20 CP, so the 4 CP difference could be your Byergot's Blessing or Steady Hand.