FFXIV Bitter Sweet

[azura84]

Look I played EQ and yea... raiding was fun back in the day.. but we didn't know any better. Sitting in a raid for more than 4 hours.. F that. I have a real life now. I'm not in high school anymore. Spending days grinding out 1 level... again. We didn't know better.. back in the day the GRIND is what made the game and that is because EQ made it that way. FFXIV they choose to look at another game to simula.

Endgame for EQ and XI were not alike and even if you watched over someone's shoulder, it's not the same as doing it yourself. I enjoyed the grind, not because of the mindlessness but because of the required structure of linkshell loot design, player efforts involved in that design and the eventual rewards of getting something out of it. I liked the old dynamis, it was fun to play with 10~30+ people for a farm for 2 hours. Hell, I played levels 1-62 for three years before ever entering the final stages of the game because I enjoyed it that much.

[Dragonskin]

Endgame for EQ and XI were not alike and even if you watched over someone's shoulder, it's not the same as doing it yourself.

Terrible logic. Do I need to get shot by a bullet to know it sucks? Do I need to stick my finger in a light socket know it will harm me? Do I need play League of Legends to know it's not a game for me? Do I need to grind to end game for a game that I know what it will be like and I wasn't interested?

The answer to all of those is no. I have been to end game in many games, but FFXI wasn't one of them. Do know know what it was like... yep. Didn't have to actually play it to see it.

To the point. This game could change and we all know that level 50 is not the end level cap.. they have been talking about increasing the cap since before FFXIV:ARR launched.

[MistressAthena]

Terrible logic. Do I need to get shot by a bullet to know it sucks? Do I need to stick my finger in a light socket know it will harm me? Do I need play League of Legends to know it's not a game for me? Do I need to grind to end game for a game that I know what it will be like and I wasn't interested?

The answer to all of those is no. I have been to end game in many games, but FFXI wasn't one of them. Do know know what it was like... yep. Didn't have to actually play it to see it.

To the point. This game could change and we all know that level 50 is not the end level cap.. they have been talking about increasing the cap since before FFXIV:ARR launched.

Ironically what you wrote is the Terrible logic. Seeing as how End Game in most games differs largely in many situations, you never know if you will or will not like it until you try it. Going off the notion of "I know what I like, and I'll stick to that concept", is shallow and narrow minded to say the least.

Idk how you compare life threatening situations to an in depth and very broad circumstances such as FFXI end game. The fail logic in that..

But honestly, I'm not here to flame or insult, despite me having done it. (Sometimes saying the truth is insulting, go figure).. You may know what it consisted of, but you didn't know the human relation, personal immersion, and hand full of other things that went into it. I'll tell you now FFXI End Game was great for many things, many of those what azura84 said. I feel bad you cheated yourself out of a possible great experience.

[MistressAthena]

Would love to see SE reply to this thread XD

[TyeAnna]

Love! Game has been out only a month....get over it...it is not WoW or FFXI....I tell my husband that a lot....they will fix issues eventually

[Dragonskin]

stuff.

So you can't watch a video, a person doing an activity or research an activity to know if you would be interested in it? You actually have to experience everything before you can come to a decision on your preferences in life? You must be a very busy person. My logic is sound even if my examples are extreme. People don't have to experience something personally to know if you will like it or not.

To add to that. When it comes to MMOs especially.. there is very little inovation anymore. You see people calling FF14 or most MMOs that came out after WoW a WoW clone for a reason. Just like WoW copied a lot of it's ideas from Everquest and Ultima Online before it new MMOs tend to copy a lot of what worked in WoW. So chances are if you have raided and participated in end game content in 1 MMO then you have a good idea of what it will be like in other MMOs that follow the same build.

You know what people say when they log in to Wildstar... a MMO that hasn't officially launched yet. This feels like WoW. The only MMO that looks to be trying to shift the MMO genre forward is Everquest Next and I seriously doubt they can pull it off, but if they do then finally we might have new experiences worth having since there really wouldn't be an "end game".

[Allyrion]

Snip.

I'm not going to say you can't carry over experience to make judgments, because you absolutely can. That's not knowledge though, that's an assumption. Your previous example would be more accurate if had to experience a bullet wound to compare it to a knife wound. Yes, you would need to know how both of those felt to make a true comparison. Since the person you quoted was making a comparison, your logic falls flat on its face.

You cannot argue assumptions as knowledge. You might be able to tell if you'd like a game or not, but you never really *know* unless you tried it. You just made an informed judgement, which is itself an assumption. In the face of people with real experience, you'd just have to shut your mouth. Since assumptions only hold value to yourself in making decisions.

You should never talk about what you assumed, just what you know unless of course you admitted you had no actual knowledge and therefore your statements could not be taken definitively.

[Dragonskin]

End game isn't very broad. There is a reason why people get to end game and quit. It's been the same for years. Yes the story, quest lines and content changes between games, but for the most part formula is very similar.

How many games have we had now that use a token system for items? I believe it actually started in Everquest 2 and was quickly adopted by World of Warcarft. Since then the end game formula has been.. get to end game and dungeon grind repeatedly for loot. If you can't get the special loot then you get tokens to purchase other end game loot.

Crafting, gathering, PvP... those are all in every MMO as side progression since MMOs are very linear and only really have horizontal progression.

What was unique about FFXI? The token system didn't exist and you actaully had to grind for everything you got. How is that similar to Everquest? You also had to grind for everything you got. What did you do in FFXI and Evequest until the next expansion came out to add new grind locations and more levels? Grind for items or exp for merits/aa points.

You guys do realize that Alternate Advancement points was actually in Everquest before it appeared as a Merit system in FFXI right? And epic legendary weapon questlines? Also in Everquest before FFXI came out.

Having said all this. I prefer the way you leveled in Everquest and FFXI to current gen MMOs. I liked EXP parties. That is what you did in old school games. There is no real reason to do that in this game because other methods for EXP are vastly superior. The only time you need to group in FFXIV is for dungeons.

[MistressAthena]

End game isn't very broad. There is a reason why people get to end game and quit. It's been the same for years. Yes the story, quest lines and content changes between games, but for the most part formula is very similar.

How many games have we had now that use a token system for items? I believe it actually started in Everquest 2 and was quickly adopted by World of Warcarft. Since then the end game formula has been.. get to end game and dungeon grind repeatedly for loot. If you can't get the special loot then you get tokens to purchase other end game loot.

Crafting, gathering, PvP... those are all in every MMO as side progression since MMOs are very linear and only really have horizontal progression.

What was unique about FFXI? The token system didn't exist and you actaully had to grind for everything you got. How is that similar to Everquest? You also had to grind for everything you got. What did you do in FFXI and Evequest until the next expansion came out to add new grind locations and more levels? Grind for items or exp for merits/aa points.

You guys do realize that Alternate Advancement points was actually in Everquest before it appeared as a Merit system in FFXI right? And epic legendary weapon questlines? Also in Everquest before FFXI came out.

Having said all this. I prefer the way you leveled in Everquest and FFXI to current gen MMOs. I liked EXP parties. That is what you did in old school games. There is no real reason to do that in this game because other methods for EXP are vastly superior. The only time you need to group in FFXIV is for dungeons.

I agree.

There is a reason why people got to End game in FFXI, yet didn't quit however. There is a reason why people played FFXI for 8 years, and still didn't quit. FFXIV isn't even close to having this, nor will it ever. Because it skipped 70% of that which makes successful MMO's Successful, and no its not End Game.

[Rekujen]

The only thing I agreed with is the EXP and Fates situation we have at the moment, everything else was "opinion" and not "logic" like you claimed it to be. Most MMO's have literally no end-game when they launch, FFXIV has primals, level 50 dungeons and Coil of Bahamut which STILL hasn't been defeated (bugs don't count)

Then you have Crystal Tower coming out soon, with Housing and PvP, barber shop, etc etc..

Game has only been out 1 month, you have no right to complain about "end game"

2.0 is better than 1.0 in almost every way possible, despite some of the questionable ability changes.. if you wanted XI, you should have stayed in XI. I played WoW since the very beginning and XIV, despite being tab targeting, is still a different and more enjoyable game.

That's like saying "Ferrari is the same as Honda.. they both do the same thing, thus, Ferrari is a Honda clone"

No..

can you swap classes in WoW? no.
does the crafting system in WoW have player interaction? no.
if someone gathers your resource in WoW, can you still mine from it? no.

Go play FFXI if you're not happy, that game is still going strong and caters to your needs... or, you could do the logical thing and grow some patience.