Please nerf Holy.

[Garnatian]

If you've been running Wanderer's Palace as of late, you'll know how much better WHM is compared to SCH.

SCH needs a decent direct damage AoE. SCH DPS is far too DoT heavy, meaning you can't dance in-and-out of Cleric Stance.

What they need to do is simply turn Holy into a DoT.

[fraeblood]

I um.... don't even know how you can say this. SCH can do a lot of dps with your pet healing if you know what you are doing. And the AOE in question is gonna OOM you if you spam it. It is not OP at all.

[Garnatian]

I um.... don't even know how you can say this. SCH can do a lot of dps with your pet healing if you know what you are doing. And the AOE in question is gonna OOM you if you spam it. It is not OP at all.

All I can say is you've probably never speedrunned Wanderer's otherwise you'd appreciate the difference.

The main issue here is not being able to dance in and out of Cleric Stance and the massive set up time for a SCH DPS.

All they need to do is change Holy into a DoT.

[rocheetbombe]

Actually, if you put up cleric stance and use all your DoTs then turn cleric stance off, those DoTs remain with the same potency from when you had it on.

So just turn cleric stance on, DoT them up, and turn it off.

[Espon]

Never really had an issue.

Swiftcast -> Shadow Flare
Rouse fairy if needed
Cast DoTs then Bane
Miasma II if you feel like it

Don't even need to drop Cleric Stance since your fairy can do the job pretty easily and Lustrate is based on max HP.

[Garnatian]

Actually, if you put up cleric stance and use all your DoTs then turn cleric stance off, those DoTs remain with the same potency from when you had it on.

So just turn cleric stance on, DoT them up, and turn it off.

I am sure I checked this before and DoTs were retroactive with buffs, but I shall go check again.

I just checked, apparently DoTs aren't retroactive with buffs, which is good, however I still have an issue with the fact that Holy requires no greater set up and stuns the target.

Never really had an issue.

Swiftcast -> Shadow Flare
Rouse fairy if needed
Cast DoTs then Bane
Miasma II if you feel like it

Don't even need to drop Cleric Stance since your fairy can do the job pretty easily and Lustrate is based on max HP.

Not much DPS and again, if you don't have to drop Cleric Stance, your Tank isn't taking much damage.

[rocheetbombe]

I am sure I checked this before and DoTs were retroactive with buffs, but I shall go check again.

The potency applies to what your stats are at the initial time it's cast, never during. I tested it mostly with Regen. If I cast Regen, then use Cleric Stance, it still ticks for the same general number. But heavily decreases if I cast it with Cleric Stance already on.

Same goes with defensive buffs. If you receive a DoT, THEN use a defense buff, there's absolutely no damage mitigation versus the DoT.

[Garnatian]

The potency applies to what your stats are at the initial time it's cast, never during. I tested it mostly with Regen. If I cast Regen, then use Cleric Stance, it still ticks for the same general number. But heavily decreases if I cast it with Cleric Stance already on.

Same goes with defensive buffs. If you receive a DoT, THEN use a defense buff, there's absolutely no damage mitigation versus the DoT.

I just checked, you are correct.

However my main issue is that, while casting Bio/BioII/Miasma/Shadow Flare + Bane takes 10s ~ a WHM can weave in and out and cast Holy when needed and it even acts as a defensive CD with the stun.

[rocheetbombe]

I just checked, you are correct.

However my main issue is that, while casting Bio/BioII/Miasma/Shadow Flare + Bane takes 10s ~ a WHM can weave in and out and cast Holy when needed and it even acts as a defensive CD with the stun.

But it's not THAT strong unless heavily spammed and Shroud of Saints afterwards to try and recover the MP cost. I only use it against the beetles and flan adds on the boss. Your strong point is that since you rely on DoTs for damage, you do far more consecutive damage versus a single target like a boss without wasting away MP spamming one ability like Holy or Stone II.

It's basically the same thing with Summoner vs Black Mage.

[Zetor]

So uh, you'd nerf the only decent nuke WHMs have (and the only one that makes soloing bearable) just because people who ridiculously overgear an entry-level dungeon can use it to farm that dungeon slightly faster?

Let me tell you what happens if I dance into cleric stance to 'spam dat holy' with a typical PUG tank against a pull of 3 mobs when the group is actually doing the dungeon in 'expected' gear (meaning i45 artifact gear and white weapon/jewelry). This is based off actual WP pugs I did as a new 50 a week or so ago when I dared use Holy on trash pulls (not in cleric stance because, again, I'm not overgeared and similarly-geared tanks can drop in the 5 seconds it takes for CS to be able to be toggled off).
- Stoneskin wears off the tank in approximately 0.5 seconds after the last holy stun wears off and the mobs become stun-immune.
- I rip aggro off the tank from at least one of the mobs (usually both) after the second holy. The aggro lead is so substantial that even blowing my Shroud cooldown will leave me with red aggro.
- I'm near OOM (it's a "speedrun", so I didn't have a chance to regen mana from the previous pull) *and* in cleric stance with 2 mobs beating on me and one beating on the tank. The non-primary mobs aren't even close to halfway dead, so... yay?

Also, I've been reading a lot of similarly overgeared Scholars bragging they can run through AK completely in cleric stance except for some parts of boss fights (fairy takes care of 90% of all healing required, and Lustrate for the rest). Gee, guess it's time for a WHM to make a thread to nerf fairy healing when their master has CS on and/or make Lustrate affected by CS too -- except no, because that'd be childish. Like this thread.

e: btw, just try to use Holy more than once in a boss fight when the group doesn't overgear the instance, and see what happens. I recommend the last boss of Aurum Vale for this.

Also, following this train of thought, it's time to nerf:
- Repose. Scholars don't have this, and it completely removes damage from several mobs, which is more than any healing spell. This is completely unfair while playing through Brayflox, Stone Vigil, etc!
- Shroud of Saints. A WHM can just cast this and get a ton of mana back... and it dumps aggro as well? Easymode crap.
- Cure 3 proc. I mean, dude, it's a proc that makes a big AOE heal auto-crit! That's freaking awesome!