Even SE staff hates Warriors...

[Giantbane]

Paladin fine as is.
Warrior fine as is.
Problem: people play Warrior like a Paladin, and as such superimpose restrictions on the WAR which should not be there. Even Yoshida said the same thing. That both WAR and PLD respectively are working as intended, and they can not nerf or boost a job based on people's bad playing method. I was looking at a parser, and a war in full ilvl 60 armor and garuda weapon was doing x1.5 the dmg of a relic/dl dps in the party. Because he optimized his rotation. It's hard to believe but you can in fact do coil and titan, in minimum requirement armor and still face roll. AS long as you optimize your job.

A tank's primary functions are to A) hold enmity and B) not die. Currently the PLD can hold hate well enough so that A) doesn't matter in most situations save AoE threat, and the number of situations where WAR's AoE threat capacity is going to make much of a difference is very limited. And a PLD is currently much better at B). DPS (as a tank) is a secondary function and is less important than the first two, which makes a WARs better DPS (in tank stance) a relatively minor bonus.

It's not about different playstyle, it's about math. Go check out the Tank forums and find one of the comparison threads that have an extensive breakdown of the 2 classes and the abilities they get (try to ignore all the "i feel" posts, most of that is garbage).

I'll not get into the specifics (they've been gone over in that forum enough) but the basics are that a PLD requires, due to shield oath + shield block + rage of halone + superior defensive cooldowns, a lot less healing to stay alive in any situation where there's a lot of incoming damage (any situation where anybody's going to care). And a WAR's self healing, no matter how many offensive stats you stack (offensive stats usually come at the cost of defensive stats, so it's not a straight bonus here), cannot close that gap. And thus people will much more often prefer a PLD because it's just a safer tanking option (especially when dealing with new or difficult content) no matter how much skill the WAR has.

And to further throw salt in the wound, there are a number of end game fights where PLD specific bonuses (no cooldown stun, a silence, ability to massively reduce incoming damage) are extremely desirable, while there are few if any fights that cater to the WAR (higher actual HP, not to be confused with effective HP, a healing debuff, better AoE threat, and maybe 10-15% extra optimal DPS in tank stance).

[PSxpert2011]

We just need more adventurers taking the role of Warriors, just so they can say they tied it. PvP will seperate the men from the mice and all honestly, its based off play-style. (well, pvp wont play the same as pve so nvm)

Warriors can DPS and hold hate because of it. It's not the same with Paladins. With Warriors large HP pool(VIT) they make a good alternative tank but it need, it needs to be healed, wars need healing, more healing power than PLDs. With Plds, WHMs...OMG WHMs... if your PLD tank is losing HP so quick in the fight, he's a very bad PLD(no def) tank. (period)

We need more warriors because their ability to hold hate and tank is based off VIT and STR. That's my own point of view, my own assessment and perspective, please carry one with the discussion. I also think, that Wars are good backup tanks + DPS(DDs) in case there's a need for crowd control. That is all.

[Evangela]

made me laugh.

[Duelle]

Yoshi-P said War was 'very powerful' and that players haven't researched enough when asked about if they were going to 'fix' warrior during the TGS live letter.

Right, because Yoshi-P is going to admit that WAR is underpowered/in need to tweaks in a Q&A event aimed at new players/potential customers. It'd be bad business to do so, even before you factor in the Japanese's whole "outer face" thing.

[Riyo]

So we have 2 of our 3 coil groups past turn 4 with a WAR tank, does that mean we are doing something wrong or there are just too many bad WAR out there?

[Taika]

No one is saying anything can't be done with WAR, that's not the issue, WAR can be used in any content (I have no coil turn 5 experience so can't talk about that). The problem is, there's no reason to pick WAR over PLD for pretty much anything and when given a choice, people will always pick PLD over WAR because it's the safer option (because PLD simply takes less damage from every single hit and is not in as much danger of going down because of multiple crits in a row, for example). The problem is, WAR desn't have any advantage over PLD when PLD has a clear advantage over WAR.

[Xenobius]

So we have 2 of our 3 coil groups past turn 4 with a WAR tank, does that mean we are doing something wrong or there are just too many bad WAR out there?

Love that argument.
Nobody said it's "impossible" to beat the current content with a warrior tank.
It *is* possible, but by choosing to do so you're shooting yourself in the leg.
Just as it's possible to complete 8-man fight with 6-7 people, wear bikinis for armor and so on. Fun in it's own way, probably, but not really working as intended.

[Grailer]

Warriors are squishy .

I always feel on the brink of death with warrior .

But with Paladin it feels so much more like a tank .

btw I have both 50 war and paladin . I prefer using war for off tanking , paladin for tanking boss.

[FallenHero]

Warriors actually scale better with gear and the dev team that cleared coils turn 5 used 2 warriors. My FC is on turn 5 in coils and we use warriors just fine. They arent as weak as you think they are, its just not easy mode tank and spank like PLDs.

[Tenku]

No one is saying anything can't be done with WAR, that's not the issue, WAR can be used in any content (I have no coil turn 5 experience so can't talk about that). The problem is, there's no reason to pick WAR over PLD for pretty much anything and when given a choice, people will always pick PLD over WAR because it's the safer option (because PLD simply takes less damage from every single hit and is not in as much danger of going down because of multiple crits in a row, for example). The problem is, WAR desn't have any advantage over PLD when PLD has a clear advantage over WAR.

WAR has an easier time AOE tanking than PLD. WAR does more AOE damage than PLD.