Tanking - WAR and PLD. There is no "Better".

[HeiZei]

"Furthermore, titan HM itself really isn't that difficult if you just dodge *shrug*"

I was implying the fight itself, not tanking.

You were implying that you dodge the entire fight? So have you or haven't you actually tanked Titan HM?

[Gamemako]

As I said I've tanked titan HM as a warrior with no trouble, many times. It isn't difficult.

Titan HM isn't hard on the tank, it's hard on the healers, and WAR just makes it harder on them.

Let me give you a preview of a post I've been working on. This is how WAR compares to PLD in terms of total mitigation right now.



I'm sure you know well enough that every endgame fight of consequence is on the right side of this graph, where PLD mitigates fully twice as much as WAR's best-case scenario. By the way, that scenario is effectively unattainable -- I'm comparing a relic+1 with high-STR build which hits for 530 damage per Inner Beast (heals 1600).

[Gingen]

You were implying that you dodge the entire fight? So have you or haven't you actually tanked Titan HM?

*sigh* why must you twist my words?

That line says "...Titan HM itself..." implying the fight itself. Not tanking. -.- However I have dodged his table flip a few times. Makes me chuckle a bit. Also when dodging Trim on hydra but the person standing next to me still gets hit lol. Oh and you stole my hairstyle!

[Sheapy]

Lol... Just read the previous threads regarding mitigation, wrath mechanics, and self-healing. The fact that you post some subjective bullshit is extremely silly without bringing a shred of evidence that can prove the current situation wrong. Paladins can easily replace a Warrior in a party with no downsides while a Warrior cannot replace a Paladin. (No Warrior has successfully MT'd 2 dreadnaughts yet). But of course you know your shit while bringing absolutely no statistics to this argument. Let's allow SE to believe that Warriors, in their current iteration, are balanced.

[Casper]

Titan HM isn't hard on the tank, it's hard on the healers, and WAR just makes it harder on them.

Let me give you a preview of a post I've been working on. This is how WAR compares to PLD in terms of total mitigation right now.



I'm sure you know well enough that every endgame fight of consequence is on the right side of this graph, where PLD mitigates fully twice as much as WAR's best-case scenario. By the way, that scenario is effectively unattainable -- I'm comparing a relic+1 with high-STR build which hits for 530 damage per Inner Beast (heals 1600).

Btw, what do you take into accoutn when you count pld mitigation ? Shield oath, block rate, CDs, dodge chance from flash 21sec per minute, rage of halone debuff, stoneskin when the boss turns around ? I guess you never did use this one, which is a shame, given that warriors have no trouble saying they can IB 4 times a minute with perfect coordination with all their CD, yet stoneskin is half an inner beast with no downside (like loosing your stacks), and most fight endgame allow for numerous opportunities to cast it unpunished. Same goes for flash if you don't count it, i don't know what the dodge chance is, but i think it is about 10%. You can have an uptime of one third of the time, which lead to over 3% more mitigation overall -- aka definitely not negligible. Just wondered if you weren't even lowballing the difference

[Illya]

Btw, what do you take into accoutn when you count pld mitigation ? Shield oath, block rate, CDs, dodge chance from flash 21sec per minute, rage of halone debuff, stoneskin when the boss turns around ? I guess you never did use this one, which is a shame, given that warriors have no trouble saying they can IB 4 times a minute with perfect coordination with all their CD, yet stoneskin is half an inner beast with no downside (like loosing your stacks), and most fight endgame allow for numerous opportunities to cast it unpunished. Same goes for flash if you don't count it, i don't know what the dodge chance is, but i think it is about 10%. You can have an uptime of one third of the time, which lead to over 3% more mitigation overall -- aka definitely not negligible. Just wondered if you weren't even lowballing the difference

These charts usually only show passive mitigation, i.e. PLD stands there and does nothing in Shield Oath, WAR stands there and does nothing in Defiance (+Wrath). That's the only thing which can be directly compared, since PLD's CDs and WAR's CDs are completely different and WAR's CDs are all total crap.

When you take PLD's CDs into consideration, the chart becomes so lopsided that you can no longer see the WAR on it.

[RapBreon]

Let me do what I do best and sum up threads;

I am the OP, I have feelings. My feelings don't agree with math and the logical premises that prove it (e.g reality), thus everybody else must be wrong.

I'm sure people like Gamemako, Kitru and Hamicikho (I'm sorry I don't remember how to spell your name XD) can do all the heavy lifting and explain why, while I sit in the back and mock you out of boredom.

Edit: I admit, I didn't read much, but was there even a logical point linking the premise and the conclusion? I didn't see one XD

[Paikis]

Titan HM isn't hard on the tank, it's hard on the healers, and WAR just makes it harder on them.

Let me give you a preview of a post I've been working on. This is how WAR compares to PLD in terms of total mitigation right now.

I'm sure you know well enough that every endgame fight of consequence is on the right side of this graph, where PLD mitigates fully twice as much as WAR's best-case scenario. By the way, that scenario is effectively unattainable -- I'm comparing a relic+1 with high-STR build which hits for 530 damage per Inner Beast (heals 1600).

I'd be interested to see how that works. Your numbers for Inner Beast heals seem a little bit low to me, considering that you're calling those numbers the Relic+1 high STR build?

[RapBreon]

I'd be interested to see how that works. Your numbers for Inner Beast heals seem a little bit low to me, considering that you're calling those numbers the Relic+1 high STR build?

I get ~1200-1300 heals with SE, Maim, relic +1 and full vit (Full DL + Heroes fending btw). Which I have tested with full str it's about ~100 - rough number, didn't do nearly enough testing for any conclusive evidence - more on average per Inner Beast. Tbh 1600 is generous. Unless it's been normalised to include crit, then I'd say about right.

[Casper]

These charts usually only show passive mitigation, i.e. PLD stands there and does nothing in Shield Oath, WAR stands there and does nothing in Defiance (+Wrath). That's the only thing which can be directly compared, since PLD's CDs and WAR's CDs are completely different and WAR's CDs are all total crap.

When you take PLD's CDs into consideration, the chart becomes so lopsided that you can no longer see the WAR on it.

The amount of mitigation for PLD is 32-33% constantly. This suggest that it takes into account sword oath, but also i guess blocking (about 7.5% maybe ?) and rage of halone (which should be what, 5% ?). Dunno if CDs are averaged to get to the final value or not, but it seems like flash is not accounted for at all, nor is stoneskin (else the beginning of pld curve would be higher like it is for warrior).

Just for once i would like a REAL comparison taking everything into account so we can have a nice graphic showing once and for all how abyssmal warrior currently is for almost anything. And btw, i don't think assuming 18sec uptime per minute of flash and 2 stoneskin per minute is a stretch, and it would actually imply a much higher baseline for paladin.