PLD is a waste on anything other than Titan and Coil.

[Jonjey]

Maybe you play a tank differently than I do... but when Tanking, I try to hold aggro and not let the other party members die.

LOL this guy.
Okay let me give you a play by play.
I join a DF Wanderer's Palace.
They're stuck on Jelly boss, can't kill him, not sure why how hard can it be.
Walk up, realize why. They're all in AF with pink accessories and some random junk weapon.
Say okay, do this this and this.
Get through jelly with only one death, how nuts!
Go on, their dps is so bad, I'm trying to keep things rolling but the tonberry catches up to us, they die like 4 times trying to get past him...
Finally get to the boss. Tell them what to do. We start, stalkers spawn, bard attacks one and it runs through and kills all 3 of them before I even realize he had attacked it.
I then solo the boss to 0% on full str war in defiance.

[CyanDvai]

Your rotation must be slightly off if your not able to hold threat, that or you let one the mobs slightly out of range of flash. I tank AK in Sword Oath with 2 SMN in full DL and Relic +1 and usually pull 2-3 groups of mobs(6-9) and never loose aggro.

You're also in Relic+1 sword/shield. I'm using Garuda sword and DL Shield trying to hold against 2 BLM's in Relic+1.
I do pretty decent if I'm holding hate against dps that is similarly equipped.

But if you can give constructive criticism on what I could do better and the rotation you use instead of saying "my rotation is off" I would appreciate the feed back. I look at every opportunity to improve myself.

[Maelwys]

I hear groups don't have terrible dps or healers that can get themselves killed.

Actually plenty of groups do.
Tanks can cover for them.

Literally. There's at least one button on my hotbar that says "Cover".

There's another few that say "Additional Effect: Enmity". I hear Warriors have something similar that they can use whenever they're not busy spamming self-heals.

What?

A little too much Sarcasm? Touche.

Why are you so condescending and ad hominem? You've done nothing to address his point of self healing. Grats on having all of the elitism and none of the sense.

That wasn't condescending. Condescending would have been "Tish and Fie. A Mighty Majestic Paladin could have performed that trivial task much more swiftly and with far less fannying about. Poor, disillusioned, pitiable little Warrior man!"

(You may notice that I've now bypassed "Condescending" and gone straight into "Snark". Personal attacks will do that. Congrats on having none of the sense OR the elitism.)

To get back to the point I was making: Self healing is great. That's the Warrior tank's flat level of damage mitigation. No, a Paladin can't achieve that level of self healing, but they COULD have found it a little easier to mitigate the incoming damage in the first place. Which may potentially have put less pressure on the poor Duty Finder Healer, freeing them up to spend a bit more time looking after any of those supposedly-suicidal DD. I don't see why any tank would feel the need to showboat at the expense of letting his teammates faceplant.

LOL this guy.
Okay let me give you a play by play.
I join a DF Wanderer's Palace.
They're stuck on Jelly boss, can't kill him, not sure why how hard can it be.
Walk up, realize why. They're all in AF with pink accessories and some random junk weapon.
Say okay, do this this and this.
Get through jelly with only one death, how nuts!
Go on, their dps is so bad, I'm trying to keep things rolling but the tonberry catches up to us, they die like 4 times trying to get past him...
Finally get to the boss. Tell them what to do. We start, stalkers spawn, bard attacks one and it runs through and kills all 3 of them before I even realize he had attacked it.
I then solo the boss to 0% on full str war in defiance.

Ahh. I see.

After finding Newbies struggling to get through the newbie dungeon, you decided that it wasn't worth bothering to run ahead of them to grab aggro from the Stalkers. And instead of paying careful attention to the Adds on the last phase of the last boss (whenever you already knew the group needed babysitting) or just grabbing aggro from the Slashers and kiting them around the room after the Bard died until he got rezzed, you decided to just let the Tonberries crush them.

Nice.

I bet that experience made those newbies much better players, and not the least bit biased against Warrior Tanks.

I particularly enjoyed the snide comment about AF gear and pink accessories, whenever the main way to get the next tier of gear after AF - the Ilevel 55 equipment - is to run Wanderers Palace in the first place. (And they accuse ME of "elitism" -sheesh!)

[Amas]

Providing a direct example of content, which is used as a comparison tool is not cherry picking, its addressing the issue.

Paladin vit will never outscale or be at a greater ratio than the amount healing scales on casting abilities even as simple as cure and cure II. Once geared well, healers will find themselves overhealing paladins consistently due to their lower HP pools. This is fact.

The damage intake by both classes is similar outside of CDs. Block and self healing are supposed to to be comparable to each other, however, as I continue to become more geared I am seeing my healing begin to outscale in some situations the effectiveness of my Paladin's block ratio.

You seem biased, bro.

You didn't provide any direct examples of content. You made a general statement that a PLD's low HP pool leads to overhealing. This is simply false. Overhealing a PLD on farm-tier content is indicative of one thing, and one thing only: a relatively unskilled or overly paranoid healer.

In fact, I'd be highly shocked if you *could* provide specific examples of when overhealing is virtually inevitable on any farm-tier content. The closest things I can think of are just prior to Mountain Buster on Titan HM and perhaps after Triumvirates on Hydra if you fail to mitigate and two healers panic (solution: designate a tank healer or just only take 1 healer if the tank is overgeared). DTPS in WP, AK, CM, Prae, Ifrit, and Garuda is simply too low to stress too much about tank HP levels and "dangling" HP a bit simply isn't very dangerous because there simply aren't big enough damage spikes.

I do not argue that WAR self-healing scales very well with gear vs. incoming damage in farm-tier content. That is absolutely true.

However.

For farm-tier content, DTPS is generally under 200 and frequently even lower than that. Regen + natural HP regen practically offsets that if you can utilize CDs to soak the occasional spike (e.g. beginning of a multi-mob pull), so in practice there's very little difference in healing required (read: not very much healing required at all) for either tank. The difference is negligible and the issue of overhealing is a complete non-issue.

[Jonjey]

blahblahblahfatkidtalk

You should have given up while you were ahead.
So wait, you said self healing is cool, but pld could have blocked the damage to begin with, freeing up the healer to do whatever...
But if I self healed then the healer is already free to do whatever....
Your logic is spot on.
Stop trying to sound smart while defying yourself at every corner.
As for the reply to me, that would have gotten myself killed, then my party would have been killed. Instead they all died, and I solo'd it for them. Thus, getting them the win. Your "strategy" would have had me dead.

[Zozorozo]

every single time his WAR parsed about 1.5x more damage than his PLD. That's close enough to twice the damage for me.

because times 1.5 damage is the new times 2.0 damage.

[Jonjey]

because times 1.5 damage is the new times 2.0 damage.

Quick let's point out nothing and call it something! Let's pretend 1.5x the damage of the other tank isn't significant over the course of a whole dungeon or primal fight!

[Soulburn32]

show me a pld that even cares

anyone? anyone?

ok c u later warrior

[Maelwys]

So wait, you said self healing is cool, but pld could have blocked the damage to begin with, freeing up the healer to do whatever...
But if I self healed then the healer is already free to do whatever....
Your logic is spot on.

So why did the Duty Finder team die then?
By definition, what you were doing there was not "tanking" - it was "soloing".

"Tanking" would have been taking the aggro from the mobs and not letting you teammates die, not just whacking the boss with your axe and making yourself not die.

Your logic seems to be that since a Warrior can solo a boss and let his teammates die, he's a good tank. That's.... well, contrary to established tradition and popular opinion. The most you could say was that you were a good soloist. Not exactly part of the "Holy Trinity" of RPG gameplay.

Stop trying to sound smart while defying yourself at every corner.
As for the reply to me, that would have gotten myself killed, then my party would have been killed. Instead they all died, and I solo'd it for them. Thus, getting them the win. Your "strategy" would have had me dead.

If your self-healing is as good as you say it is, then you would have been able to hold aggro on everything and still whittle the boss down. This is because you claim to have soloed the boss from 30%, and whilst doing that you would still have had to contend with kiting (or otherwise putting up with the damage of) exactly the same amount of adds that would have been attacking both you and the party members.

Sadly, insulting the other person (or quoting what they said as "blahblahblahfatkidtalk" - nice touch, you've definitely taken the intellectual high ground!) is not the same as winning an argument.

I am, however, impressed by your ability to withstand any damage inflicted to your story/viewpoint by flat-out ignoring it. With that type of mitigation, you'd make a wonderful Paladin...

[Gamemako]

OP is a troll. He is pulling numbers out of his ass and making non-arguments combined with personal attacks. Stop feeding him. Put him on your ignore list and walk away.