Remove AOE Toggle

[Ava]

I don't really care about FFXI, if I wanted to play XI, I would. I want the AOE toggle out because there's no real argument against it and it's a basic mechanic that exists in all MMOs, and it works. MMOs have separate spells for AOE and single target spells for a reason, it's to encourage decision making. You people bringing up action points are arguing ONE slot, really? Are you serious? One slot is going to kill it for you?

Name them completely different for all I care, name AOE Fire "Firestorm" or "Rain of Fire", I don't care. Name AOE Cure "Arrows of Light" or whatever, honestly, I don't care. The point is, FFXIV is the only game that lets you AOE -anything-. It was a risk and clearly there is a fair amount of people that believe it was a failed experiment. Several people have brought up valid concerns but saying things like "lol u jus wanna play ffxi looser kthxbye" is just stupid.

They wouldn't even have to do away with the action point system. They could just adjust the cost of spells to make room for the AOE versions. Action points aren't really a valid argument, there are more than enough ways to tackle that issue since the whole system in it's current incarnation is far from perfect.

[Ceons]

You guys have no idea what the new changes to classes/job system is going to be... Please hold off game breaking suggestions and ripping each others throats out till you see what it is. Maybe the jobs wont have aoe toggle... Maybe it something totally different.

I mean I get that people have nothing better to do than to speculate over the changes and things to be changed since the update is a whole another month away but seriously just wait and see first.

[Tsuga]

I don't really care about FFXI, if I wanted to play XI, I would. I want the AOE toggle out because there's no real argument against it and it's a basic mechanic that exists in all MMOs, and it works. MMOs have separate spells for AOE and single target spells for a reason, it's to encourage decision making. You people bringing up action points are arguing ONE slot, really? Are you serious? One slot is going to kill it for you?

Name them completely different for all I care, name AOE Fire "Firestorm" or "Rain of Fire", I don't care. Name AOE Cure "Arrows of Light" or whatever, honestly, I don't care. The point is, FFXIV is the only game that lets you AOE -anything-. It was a risk and clearly there is a fair amount of people that believe it was a failed experiment. Several people have brought up valid concerns but saying things like "lol u jus wanna play ffxi looser kthxbye" is just stupid.

They wouldn't even have to do away with the action point system. They could just adjust the cost of spells to make room for the AOE versions. Action points aren't really a valid argument, there are more than enough ways to tackle that issue since the whole system in it's current incarnation is far from perfect.

So you're saying you want them to be separate spells just because other MMOs do it?

With the toggle, I still have the decision to choose whether or not I'm gonna AoE, it's EXACTLY the same as what it would be like if you split it into different spells, except without the DRAWBACK of losing slots on my action bar.

When I'm in a party, I use single target nukes, AoE nukes, and AoE cures as needed, and I'm constantly switching between the them. I am able to do this just fine with the toggle, and I'm not bogged down by essentially useless spells that the system you're proposing offers.

Your Logic makes no sense at all. Let's change the whole AP system just because you don't like pressing a button to use AoE (which you would have to do anyway if it were on your bar, you'd just be pressing "2" instead of "z" on a keyboard). It is unintuitive to change the toggle system, and only serves to complicate a system that makes perfect sense.

Edit:

You guys have no idea what the new changes to classes/job system is going to be... Please hold off game breaking suggestions and ripping each others throats out till you see what it is. Maybe the jobs wont have aoe toggle... Maybe it something totally different.

I mean I get that people have nothing better to do than to speculate over the changes and things to be changed since the update is a whole another month away but seriously just wait and see first.

I agree.

I don't think SE would take the OP's suggestion at face value, I just felt like pointing out the obvious drawbacks to the suggested system (which the OP has provided no improvements that the system would really bring to the table, aside from a faulty argument about the button used for AoE on a controller).

[Ava]

Your Logic makes no sense at all. Let's change the whole AP system just because you don't like pressing a button to use AoE (which you would have to do anyway if it were on your bar, you'd just be pressing "2" instead of "z" on a keyboard). It is unintuitive to change the toggle system, and only serves to complicate a system that makes perfect sense.

No, let's change the AP system because it says so specifically in Yoshi-P's letter. While we're changing it, we can consider enhancements such as removing the toggle.

You argue that removing the toggle fixes nothing at all, and is utterly pointless. I'll argue that balancing a system where everything can be AOE'd is impossible. You argue that you use a lot of strategy in your gameplay toggling in and out of AOE. I'll argue that, as a healer, you never turn off AOE because there is utterly no need to. There is no penalty or anything. The only time I ever toggle it off is when I have to debuff mobs, but even then you really don't have to considering most content (leves and behests) are fighting against packs of mobs, and with the long recast times you pretty much have to aoe your debuffs.

So really, what are you trying to say? Clearly we all play differently - and that's good. But that doesn't change that this system is a failed experiment. I want them to change it because of that, not because every other MMO does it. If I wanted to play *insert generic MMO* I'd go play WoW or Rift, not FFXIV.

[Reika]

No, let's change the AP system because it says so specifically in Yoshi-P's letter. While we're changing it, we can consider enhancements such as removing the toggle.

You argue that removing the toggle fixes nothing at all, and is utterly pointless. I'll argue that balancing a system where everything can be AOE'd is impossible. You argue that you use a lot of strategy in your gameplay toggling in and out of AOE. I'll argue that, as a healer, you never turn off AOE because there is utterly no need to. There is no penalty or anything. The only time I ever toggle it off is when I have to debuff mobs, but even then you really don't have to considering most content (leves and behests) are fighting against packs of mobs, and with the long recast times you pretty much have to aoe your debuffs.

So really, what are you trying to say? Clearly we all play differently - and that's good. But that doesn't change that this system is a failed experiment. I want them to change it because of that, not because every other MMO does it. If I wanted to play *insert generic MMO* I'd go play WoW or Rift, not FFXIV.

Which letter would that be?

[Tsuga]

No, let's change the AP system because it says so specifically in Yoshi-P's letter. While we're changing it, we can consider enhancements such as removing the toggle.

You argue that removing the toggle fixes nothing at all, and is utterly pointless. I'll argue that balancing a system where everything can be AOE'd is impossible. You argue that you use a lot of strategy in your gameplay toggling in and out of AOE. I'll argue that, as a healer, you never turn off AOE because there is utterly no need to. There is no penalty or anything. The only time I ever toggle it off is when I have to debuff mobs, but even then you really don't have to considering most content (leves and behests) are fighting against packs of mobs, and with the long recast times you pretty much have to aoe your debuffs.

So really, what are you trying to say? Clearly we all play differently - and that's good. But that doesn't change that this system is a failed experiment. I want them to change it because of that, not because every other MMO does it. If I wanted to play *insert generic MMO* I'd go play WoW or Rift, not FFXIV.

What you're saying has absolutely nothing to do with AoE toggle, and more to do with MP and hate management, both of which are being tweaked according to the battle blueprint and the LFTP X.

I agree, there is no need to switch from AoE on cures, but that would be solved by increasing hate/MP costs caused by AoE, NOT by getting rid of toggle. AGAIN, my point about changing AoE toggling to a -ga skill (ala FFXI) is utterly pointless, and only serves to complicate a simpler system than we had back in XI.

So please, tell me again how AoE toggling has failed. You can't, because it hasn't failed at all. It does the same thing having -ga spells would do, without taking up skill slots. Again, the ONLY problems you keep highlighting have nothing to do with toggle.

[Akuun]

I don't see a problem with the aoe toggle, and as far as buttons, that same button is used to begin BRs and for emotes outside of combat, so it's not simply a toggle for one thing.
as for the ease of aoes I think that cost is a bit silly since its the same as non aoe. as for strategy, if your using aoes you have to be more aware of your surroundings so that you don't put your party at risk.

The biggest problem at the moment on the curing side of things is the horrid targeting system, we can't even sub-target party members with simple up and down....
As for making -ga spells I don't like this idea at all, it was terrible in 11 when manually selecting spells as it simply cluttered the list.
As for enmity I could see an increase for it on aoes even if you only attack a single target or heal a single party member.
Over all it would require players to be more strategic in it's use and possibly more conservative, though mp regeneration makes short battles a joke for mages now

[Ava]

Which letter would that be?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/11012

-NEW-
Action bar and other GUI revision based on the introduction of auto-attack

This one implies they may adjust how many bars are displayed on the screen at a time or adjust how the buttons work. (UI changes to the action bar itself)

-NEW-
Reexamination of requirements for setting actions

Implies they are redoing AP requirements across the board so the transition into a job system is smoother.

[Reika]

That doesnt mean they are redoing AP requirements. The part right next to it matters to.

-NEW-
Implement the default setting of class-specific actions when playing as that class, and define conditions for setting the actions of other classes.

=/= redoing AP system. Most likely means less Cross class abilities. And it was said in the battle blueprint that skills your your class will automatically be equipped first.

However if they reduce AP costs of mage spells, that would be good, since like i said, you can never equip all of your spells or abilities as a mage.

[Ava]

That doesnt mean they are redoing AP requirements. The part right next to it matters to.

-NEW-
Implement the default setting of class-specific actions when playing as that class, and define conditions for setting the actions of other classes.

=/= redoing AP system. Most likely means less Cross class abilities. And it was said in the battle blueprint that skills your your class will automatically be equipped first.

However if they reduce AP costs of mage spells, that would be good, since like i said, you can never equip all of your spells or abilities as a mage.

I would disagree with you on that. First, the first quote in my post is much closer to what your idea of the second quote is. The first quote implies some kind of changes with the bar themselves, UI elements. Automatically equipping actions, I would argue, is a UI thing.

The second quote mentions equipping actions specifically. Yes, they may not currently intend to change the way they work entirely but there are plenty of other sections of the letter that discuss balancing spells and abilities across the board, and having to change some so that they work nicer with the new systems. It's speculation, since honestly, everything is speculation. The point is, they are re examining the systems surrounding Actions, Action Points, and the Action Bar. What they decide to do, nobody knows. But we know they're at least looking at them and intend to do something with them.

Also, why do people feel like they need to equip everything? =/ Isn't that the purpose of Action Points? So you have to decide what is absolutely most important and equip only those? So many lazy people playing this game.

In FFXIV: time = hardcore, but decision making = wrong idea. We're doomed if SE feels that way, too.