XIV WAR Tanking - Baseline Mitigation and PLD comparison

[Taemek]

Already pointed out the error in SE stacking method here. Additionally, you will not stop using Storm's Eye -- unlike most debuffs, enemies do not gain resistance to the vulnerability debuffs (Disembowel, Storm's Eye, Dragon Kick).

Im curious if multiple slashing debuffs stack or does the system only take in to effect the highest % reduction?

@Tera, don't forget, if you only utilize SE every min like you say due to 2 maims per min, your group is losing that 10% debuff, so for 30 seconds out of every min, every slash skill based player in your group has lost DPS, netting an overall loss at the cost of gaining how much DPS for yourself and does that small DPS gain yourself outweight the groups total gain from the 10% debuff?

Now, if the effects do no stack and only one debuff is taken in to account, and someone else can maintain a slashing debuff (assuming another class has a slashing debuff) then sure, you can skip SE all together (unless the target needs a 50% reduction to healing which another class also may be able to maintain) and maximize your own DPS while not lowering your overall groups DPS at the same time.

Anyone tested if they stack?

[Hitokirinomad]

I am not sure Taemek how much your War if you have to ask that question. WAR and PLD are the only classes that do slashing DMG, and there is no other class with slash debuff. And no, they don't stack. How much have you played this game to not know any of that? What testing is needed? Also, the utility of SE usage is in maintaining your survivability while you are MT, not increasing group DPS. If you are OT, you don't have to worry about self heals, so then it's not even an issue. You should actually talk to the WAR in your FC before bringing the ignorance here. You'll just seem smarter when you show a basic grasp of WAR mechanics on a WAR thread.

[Mang]

Personally, I find that incredibly offensive, mainly because it operates under the supposition that women are slaves to their emotions whereas men are purely logical and in control. Even if you want to discuss gender differences from a psychological standpoint, women are only slightly more prone to instinctive and emotion reaction than men are, but factors like race, age, and occupation/education/field of expertise play a *much* larger role than gender does.

I'm an emotionally driven heterosexual man and I approve this message.

[Gamemako]

Im curious if multiple slashing debuffs stack or does the system only take in to effect the highest % reduction?

If you hit with the same debuff as someone else, it just restarts the timer. I end up doing this with other DRGs -- both Disembowels hit, timer just resets on the second one. As I noted before, enemies don't build resistance, so it never gives you the "Has no effect!" or "Fully resisted!" messages. There isn't more than one for each damage type, either. Storm's Eye is Slashing, Disembowel is Piercing, and Dragon Kick is Blunt. You get one of each no matter how many people try to apply it.

@Tera, don't forget, if you only utilize SE every min like you say due to 2 maims per min, your group is losing that 10% debuff

Actually, PLD is the only other Slashing-type character at this time, as hitokirinomad pointed out.

[Taemek]

If you hit with the same debuff as someone else, it just restarts the timer. I end up doing this with other DRGs -- both Disembowels hit, timer just resets on the second one. As I noted before, enemies don't build resistance, so it never gives you the "Has no effect!" or "Fully resisted!" messages. There isn't more than one for each damage type, either. Storm's Eye is Slashing, Disembowel is Piercing, and Dragon Kick is Blunt. You get one of each no matter how many people try to apply it.



Actually, PLD is the only other Slashing-type character at this time, as hitokirinomad pointed out.

Good to know, I wasn't sure if other classes had skills that apply as slashing damage as I am not famaliar with every single class in the game.

[Taemek]

I am not sure Taemek how much your War if you have to ask that question. WAR and PLD are the only classes that do slashing DMG, and there is no other class with slash debuff. And no, they don't stack. How much have you played this game to not know any of that? What testing is needed? Also, the utility of SE usage is in maintaining your survivability while you are MT, not increasing group DPS. If you are OT, you don't have to worry about self heals, so then it's not even an issue. You should actually talk to the WAR in your FC before bringing the ignorance here. You'll just seem smarter when you show a basic grasp of WAR mechanics on a WAR thread.

You are assuming that I was under the impression that I knew that no other class had any slashing type skills what so ever, which I didn't as I am not famaliar with all the classes in the game. You are also assuming that I have seen more then one Warrior in a party before, which I haven't.

Another person who has a reading comprehension disability, the DPS comment I was refering to was Tera not keeping SE up and only casting it twice every min due to only using maim twice every min. If you are going to flame someone, at least get it right. Clearly english is not your first langauge, so might want to clarify with someone in your FC if you are unsure on what someone means instead of bringing your ignorance here.

[Judge_Xero]

Last I checked, you could still stack the heck out of skill speed and still not hit a 0.1s reduction. If throwing all your points at it don't give you even 4%, it's probably not worth trying.

Care to post your math on Bloodbath? I think you're still overestimating it a bit. If you're just using SE/BB (lags a bit behind, but not much), you should expect 2480 potency over 30 seconds. This is 620 potency healed. Maim, Storm's Eye, and Defiance are a net zero effect (1.2*0.75/0.9=1). At 1.3 damage per potency, that should be about 806 healed, which is just under 9 per second over the 90 second cooldown. Your estimate is still twice this. Why?

I included the 25% healed on the Auto-Attack damage. But to put it into a 60 second scale I did 20 seconds of bloodbath over 60 seconds....But I also didn't include the damage reduction on potency for the rest of the skills so I ended up with 13 HPS just from the normal rotation lol. Back to the drawing board.

[Hitokirinomad]

@Tera, don't forget, if you only utilize SE every min like you say due to 2 maims per min, your **group** is losing that 10% debuff, so for 30 seconds out of every min, every **slash skill based player in your group has lost DPS**, netting an overall loss at the cost of gaining how much DPS for yourself and does that small DPS gain yourself outweight the **groups** total gain from the 10% debuff?

Actually, my English is pretty good. I may not speak the particular dialect that you do, where the word group has no meaning, but I get by. You have no understanding of the class or greater game mechanics (dmg types aren't exactly hidden in code), yet feel the need to theorycraft about something you don't understand. I was being honest, if impolite. If you don't understand, you should ask the 50 WAR in your FC before bringing it to the forum. Don't argue theory when you don't understand what's going on. And don't claim to have a 50 WAR that you raid **on** if you can't produce proof or a working knowledge of basic class mechanics. If you haven't seen more than one WAR in a party before, you don't have TWO in your FC, or you bench one for raids for the specific reasons being discussed in this thread. Or...your highest class is a 36 THM, you have MRD leveled to **4**(18 on another server), GLD not leveled at all, and you should probably step the hell out of this discussion. Again, honest yet impolite. Have someone in your FC explain that to you.

[Taemek]

Actually, my English is pretty good. I may not speak the particular dialect that you do, where the word group has no meaning, but I get by. You have no understanding of the class or greater game mechanics (dmg types aren't exactly hidden in code), yet feel the need to theorycraft about something you don't understand. I was being honest, if impolite. If you don't understand, you should ask the 50 WAR in your FC before bringing it to the forum. Don't argue theory when you don't understand what's going on. And don't claim to have a 50 WAR that you raid **on** if you can't produce proof or a working knowledge of basic class mechanics. If you haven't seen more than one WAR in a party before, you don't have TWO in your FC, or you bench one for raids for the specific reasons being discussed in this thread. Or...your highest class is a 36 THM, you have MRD leveled to **4**(18 on another server), GLD not leveled at all, and you should probably step the hell out of this discussion. Again, honest yet impolite. Have someone in your FC explain that to you.

And I will say again, no you didn't understand what my point was or what we were refering too, so ask someone in your guild to go over a post for you so that you fully understand the dialect being spoken. If you come to the English fourms, you are expected to understand it. Honest, yet impolite.

Now if you ever get someone to explain the dialect to you, you will see in that post I was actually refering to 2 different sceanrios, one if it does stack and two if it doesnt stack. Put simple, learn to read english. Here, quoted for clarity:

Now, if the effects do no stack and only one debuff is taken in to account.............

Anyways, you strike me as the person who needs to have the last say, so go ahead, flame my level 4 MRD some more, he enjoys your salty tears.

[Leiron]

Taemak, if you try any harder I might need to argue on your behalf, its really pathetic to watch.
So do stop.