The account suspensions and gil reset leave a black mark on this game.

[Nero92]

Do you also ask for a price guide when buying/selling stocks?

manufacturers cannot set pricing alone by themselves... not based on the whining of random people on the internet who obviously slept through their econ 101 classes.

Things you gather are not actually free, unless of course you value your time and effort as worthless.

I’ll just buy up all the stuff you’re selling at 90% below market cost and put it right back on the market.

1: No, just wondering how 1st gen determined prices and are now arguing they weren't overpriced when the game only accumulates ~500k and 1st gen lvl 50 DOM/DOW didn't have time to craft. If they were their customers, then gil came from somewhere.

2: Ever hear of Rockefeller or anyone else who was first on a high value market? Or did you pay so much attention in econ101 that history eluded you? Also, who's whining other than the FFXIV Rockefellers??

3: Playing videogames? Yeah, worthless.

4: You coming to my world now?

[Susanoh]

So to give ya some tips on *free market*, indeed you are free to set a price as high as you want, only if the market is a FAIR free market tho. If there are illegal sources of money in a free market, then they WILL be used, and that makes overpricing not only effective, but also a way to send more people to those sources.

Also, in a game where a normal rank 50 has about 500k, then NO, 1m is not a normal price for a lvl50 item, this is simple logic(lemme help ya, its like 100% more than a DoW's total on 50 :3 )

To the first point made here, I just want to add that cheating is always a possibility, so what you are advocating is that the market should not be treated as a free market. On the other hand, there's no form of regulation, no governing body saying "600k is the price you should be selling this for" or "Wait, that's too much! Lower the price." Basically, if players attempting to make money in the game try to work around the possible suspensions, then it becomes a guessing game of how well you should bother to try to do. Should I try to make a decent amount of money, a good amount of money, or a great amount of money? Whatever keeps me under the radar for getting banned for having too much gil. This line of thinking would cause the markets to function in a way that isn't natural at all.

To your second point, which you say is "simple logic" defies the very basic concepts of supply and demand that occur in any player run economy. By being the first to create a two star crafting item, that crafter holds one of the most valuable items in the game. The demand is going to be anyone who wants to buy a very good piece of equipment for their job off of the markets. The supply is literally one. If the supply were any lower, the item could not even exist. What you're advocating is selling it at a price that the lowest common denominator can afford, that the "normal rank 50" should be able to buy a rare, highly demanded item of which only one exists in the game. If everyone starts following the "Well, let's price it so that everyone can afford it!" mentality, for one thing, it would be completely unnatural because the only reason such an off the wall economic decision could be made is out of fear that if the seller succeeds there will be repercussions. And for another thing, it makes gil completely worthless, far more worthless than some inflation ever could. Why would anyone bother to try and make gil when every item is priced so that "everyone" can afford it? What value does any item hold if we must price it so that just anyone can afford it? Absolutely none. It puts a limit on any item's worth no matter how rare or highly demanded, because we have to price is so that the guy who just dinged 50 can afford it as easily as someone who pours their in game efforts into making money. At that point, the market, along with the in game currency used on it, becomes worthless, and may as well not even be in the game.

[YuriRamona]

To the first point made here, I just want to add that cheating is always a possibility, so what you are advocating is that the market should not be treated as a free market. On the other hand, there's no form of regulation, no governing body saying "600k is the price you should be selling this for" or "Wait, that's too much! Lower the price." Basically, if players attempting to make money in the game try to work around the possible suspensions, then it becomes a guessing game of how well you should bother to try to do. Should I try to make a decent amount of money, a good amount of money, or a great amount of money? Whatever keeps me under the radar for getting banned for having too much gil. This line of thinking would cause the markets to function in a way that isn't natural at all.

To your second point, which you say is "simple logic" defies the very basic concepts of supply and demand that occur in any player run economy. By being the first to create a two star crafting item, that crafter holds one of the most valuable items in the game. The demand is going to be anyone who wants to buy a very good piece of equipment for their job off of the markets. The supply is literally one. If the supply were any lower, the item could not even exist. What you're advocating is selling it at a price that the lowest common denominator can afford, that the "normal rank 50" should be able to buy a rare, highly demanded item of which only one exists in the game. If everyone starts following the "Well, let's price it so that everyone can afford it!" mentality, for one thing, it would be completely unnatural because the only reason such an off the wall economic decision could be made is out of fear that if the seller succeeds there will be repercussions. And for another thing, it makes gil completely worthless, far more worthless than some inflation ever could. Why would anyone bother to try and make gil when every item is priced so that "everyone" can afford it? What value does any item hold if we must price it so that just anyone can afford it? Absolutely none. It puts a limit on any item's worth no matter how rare or highly demanded, because we have to price is so that the guy who just dinged 50 can afford it as easily as someone who pours their in game efforts into making money. At that point, the market, along with the in game currency used on it, becomes worthless, and may as well not even be in the game.

To add to your post:

The problem is that with the ingredients for 2-star crafts hovering around 35k, the minimum cost for any piece of equipment is ~325k.

Unless we value crafters' labor, investment, and opportunity costs very low, the finished product should be sold in the millions.

The only alternative is an active system of cooperation where crafters collectively slashed their prices and ingredient sellers did the same.

[Nica]

1: No, just wondering how 1st gen determined prices

Wrong question, they don’t, the market do.* Does car companies unilaterally decide how much to sell their cars without taking into account how much the materials cost, labors involved, profit margin, market demand?* Of course not, and it’s as true today as it was when the very first automobile was invented.

Maybe Nero92 Automotives follow the “lolol imma sell this at whateva I want!” principle, but don’t expect others to follow in your step.

2: Ever hear of Rockefeller or anyone else who was first on a high value market? Or did you pay so much attention in econ101 that history eluded you? Also, who's whining other than the FFXIV Rockefellers??

Talk about being piss poor at choosing examples, which part of the rather large Rockefeller history are you referring to? Not that I don’t get what you’re trying to imply, but seriously, North Korea is still {Over there} if you want to join in the most glorious Communist movement comrade (sorry, China has already said screw it and went capitalism).

3:* Playing videogames? Yeah, worthless.

Suit yourself.* Again, don’t expect other people to follow you.

4: You coming to my world now?

No need, there are plenty of people who knows how economies functions on yours to make free profit from your lack of knowledge.

[Sterob]

3 DS ores on market: 13k each

Now don't come at me saying 99% was corrupted, it's tottaly impossible, that would even include money from quests. SE screwed up hard, did no investigation at all and just took 99% gils off of lots of player. If we had been caught red handed, our account would have been banned.

1/ story quest + sidequest in CCH, Mor Dhona and north Thalana gave me 150k gold and i didnt buy a single thing. Now explain the 200k (350k-150k = 200k) you earn from quest level below level 40.
2/ do you ever think that those people who bought ore from you charged exorbitant price for crafted item? And who have the money for those expensive item? gil buyers.

Like real life economy, you can price your goods high, but people who buy yours will be either truly rich people or bank robber? The higher the price (reward) the bigger the risk (more likely chance your buyers are bank robber since less people can afford your good legally). So you play with match soaked in gasoline and get burned, what do you want to complain

[Sinth]

I was not affected by this issue and wasn't even aware of it until stumbling across this forum post and I must say that I am thoroughly disgusted with how the situation was handled by SE. I will be calling CS to complain about this even though I was not targeted. Silence is acceptance, and I surely do not want to be made a target of the same machiavellian 'solution' SE has employed here in any other possible scenario.

[Livilda]

Well, having now seen that super-banned forum screenshot, I'm going to subscribe to the 'it was the day 0 multi-billion gil hack plus reaganomics' theory.

[Zirael_Foxfire]

Well, having now seen that super-banned forum screenshot, I'm going to subscribe to the 'it was the day 0 multi-billion gil hack plus reaganomics' theory.

You're not far from truth, actualy. Apparently there has been an exploit since Beta IV that lets you get any gil any item and any level instantly. Look for proofs on other forums if you can't beleive it. I've been trying to ask SE on these forums if it's confirmed and what they are going to do about it, but my posts get instantly encored and deleted

[Nero92]

Wrong question, they don’t, the market do.* Does car companies unilaterally decide how much to sell their cars without taking into account how much the materials cost, labors involved, profit margin, market demand?

which part of the rather large Rockefeller history are you referring to? North Korea is still Over there if you want to join in the most glorious Communist movement comrade

don’t expect other people to follow you.

there are plenty of people who knows how economies functions on yours to make free profit from your lack of knowledge.

1: "Companies" not company. Again you fail at imagining just one person producing.
2: The power of industrial autonomy without competition. Like a 1st gen lvl 50 crafter. Communism? Your butthurt is showing.
3: Others are, hence QQ threads about undercutting.
4: Ironically, I get undercut. Mind teaching them and I a course?
*Stay away from debate teams.

[JoRob]

I'm puzzled.
One thing that keeps bumping up against statements about the game's free market economy is this: a free market pricing system works only if there are no sudden bursts of coin from outside. The ability of a player to buy coin that can be summarily dumped into the market undercuts the market's ability to control a price, inflating it.
The FFXIV markets will never be the open market that people seem to think they are as long as outside sources of coin exist.
Look back on the thread There are lots of statements from Firsts on setting their original prices, when they were the only source.
My question to the Firsts is--and remember, these are early days on the server--how much gil did YOU have when you first posted your mats? I'm assuming you were as broke as everyone else on the server. This is BEFORE you made your millions, remember. And if you didn't have much, in a land where most folks were broke, where did you expect it to come from? Who had the gil to pay you?