Please do not lock Jobs to the Weapon Class that unlocks them.

[Amsai]

@Cairdeas

Classes
Actions will undergo major revisions, along with both the underlying mechanics and conditions.

By major revisions, not only do we mean the tweaking of effects and potency of existing actions - we will work from the ground up to redesign and reassign actions based on clearly identified class roles.

While I respect the idea that you want to use different weapons. At this point it seems pretty clear that classes will be reassembled to make more sense and will be considered roles in and of themselves. Just check that bold part of the quote. Now you are right that the original concept was that classes = weapon type. However, it looks like they are doing what I always wanted them to do and put all related and relevant skills on a particular class, which in effect wil create roles and not just weapon users. That bold part of the quote just means when all is said and done if I want to tank I will choose Gladiator, because it will have all relevant tanking skills. Instead of me having to level multiple classes to get the best benefit, I will simply level Gladiator. Sounds like a role to me. Now I will still be able to cross-class, but it would be if I wanted my Tank (Gladiator) to have say ...... idk some nukes too.

Conclusion: After the changes, classes will be weapon specific roles by default, and it will be up to you to make them otherwise. And jobs will be a way to specialize in that role. So then your Gladiator becomes a Paladin to be transformed from a good Tank with a lot of versatility to a ridiculously good tank with limited function outside that role.

[Cairdeas]

@Cairdeas



While I respect the idea that you want to use different weapons. At this point it seems pretty clear that classes will be reassembled to make more sense and will be considered roles in and of themselves. Just check that bold part of the quote. Now you are right that the original concept was that classes = weapon type. However, it looks like they are doing what I always wanted them to do and put all related and relevant skills on a particular class, which in effect wil create roles and not just weapon users. That bold part of the quote just means when all is said and done if I want to tank I will choose Gladiator, because it will have all relevant tanking skills. Instead of me having to level multiple classes to get the best benefit, I will simply level Gladiator. Sounds like a role to me. Now I will still be able to cross-class, but it would be if I wanted my Tank (Gladiator) to have say ...... idk some nukes too.

Conclusion: After the changes, classes will be weapon specific roles by default, and it will be up to you to make them otherwise. And jobs will be a way to specialize in that role. So then your Gladiator becomes a Paladin to be transformed from a good Tank with a lot of versatility to a ridiculously good tank with limited function outside that role.

So if Equipping Paladin is what makes you a ridiculously good tank with limited functions outside of that role, Weapon no longer matters so why limit the user to only using that one weapon?

[Focant]

The argument of "Why not" doesn't fly in this case. Each job is based on a class and each class defined by a weapon. To allow changing weapons changes the class and thus removes the basis for the job.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post140725. Previous post, going to pitch it one last time so I don't end up repeating myself.

At this point Cair you're going in circles and convincing no one. Perhaps you should wait until we have REAL information about the job system rather than speculation and a few sentences. At that point you should be able to make informed suggestions rather than just pitching your "ideal" situation without any consideration for the game it's being put into.

[BloodLotus]

So if Equipping Paladin is what makes you a ridiculously good tank with limited functions outside of that role, Weapon no longer matters so why limit the user to only using that one weapon?

You have to take your notion that the weapon and the weapon user are the exact same thing out of the equation to understand what he means.

Can't explain it to you until you see where we're coming from. Until then explaining it to you is a lost cause.

[Cairdeas]

You have to take your notion that the weapon and the weapon user are the exact same thing out of the equation to understand what he means.

Can't explain it to you until you see where we're coming from. Until then explaining it to you is a lost cause.

Again. Once I learn the specialization. I've learned it why can't I use it on another weapon? The core tenates of the armoury system as it was given to us was "Use weapons, Learn skills, Build a Character off what you have learned."

So I learned how to tank (Paladin) by leveling Gladiator. Why can't I take what I learned and use it with a Lance/Lancer?

Why do I suddenly forget everything about tanking just because I changed weapons?


Class/Weapon Specific Skills make sense to block for cross classing. A Lancer obviously can't be shot with a bow and split into a million parts in mid air clattering to the ground and destroying everything they touch.

But all the Jobs are are Specialized roles for combat, I see no reason why they should be limited to class after you have learned and mastered them.

[BloodLotus]

The argument of "Why not" doesn't fly in this case. Each job is based on a class and each class defined by a weapon. To allow changing weapons changes the class and thus removes the basis for the job.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post140725. Previous post, going to pitch it one last time so I don't end up repeating myself.

At this point Cair you're going in circles and convincing no one. Perhaps you should wait until we have REAL information about the job system rather than speculation and a few sentences. At that point you may have a real basis for your opinion.

I have no doubt that you do. Thats not what I'm asking. I'm asking that SE consider that they keep the ability to use any weapon on any job an option. Lots of other players have agreed with me. Thats the only thing I've tried to instill. Yet you keep coming along saying things like "A Dragoon is a Lancer" when historically its not.

My point with the Class list translations is to try and show that all the classes are are weapons. They are not established roles, they are nothing but the weapon themselves. They are a foundation to build a character off of. A tool to teach you skills. One of those skills they will now teach you is the ability to define your Role with a Job that gives you a combat specialization.

Once I've learned and mastered that Specialization I should be allowed to use it on any weapon. Which is what the Armoury system was designed for.

Until he removes this notion he won't understand what everyone else means.

[AlexiaKidd]

Just another quick thought as it seems Jobs don't have ranks as we know them, is it going to mean say for WAR if it is tied to MRD that in order to we will have to continue using Great Axe (MRD) all the way to 99 or whatever the cap is once it is eventually lifted.

[BloodLotus]

Again. Once I learn the specialization. I've learned it why can't I use it on another weapon? The core tenates of the armoury system as it was given to us was "Use weapons, Learn skills, Build a Character off what you have learned."

So I learned how to tank (Paladin) by leveling Gladiator. Why can't I take what I learned and use it with a Lance/Lancer?

Why do I suddenly forget everything about tanking just because I changed weapons?

You have to take your notion that the weapon and the weapon user are the exact same thing out of the equation to understand what he means.

Can't explain it to you until you see where we're coming from. Until then explaining it to you is a lost cause.

1234567890

[AlexiaKidd]

Again. Once I learn the specialization. I've learned it why can't I use it on another weapon? The core tenates of the armoury system as it was given to us was "Use weapons, Learn skills, Build a Character off what you have learned."

So I learned how to tank (Paladin) by leveling Gladiator. Why can't I take what I learned and use it with a Lance/Lancer?

Why do I suddenly forget everything about tanking just because I changed weapons?

Actually when you think about it Gladiator (sword) isn't a tank it only becomes one when you combine it with Sentinel (shield)

[Vanguard319]

Just speculation on my part, but I think some jobs will be cross-compatible with more than one class.

For example, Warrior could be a job option if you are a Gladiator, Marauder, or Lancer, you would become a Warrior specializing in that weapon. Say you want to be a Ranger, you can choose to be one through archer (a rng specializing in a bow) or musketeer (a rng specializing in a gun)

likewise, A gla with a shield, and cure/protect magic would have the choice to become a Paladin, a gla or mrd with absorb magic could become a Dark Knight, and a gla with healing/debuff/elemental magic would become a Red Mage.

In short, the class is defined by what weapon you have equipped, while the job is defined by or limits what skills you have available to you in the armoury system.