An all-too-common mistake that tanks make.

[Jessekane]

I am currently tanking turn 4 in coil of bahamut and just now realized this..... However i usually gather mobs in front of me so it is easier on the dps.

[Ehayte]

So, this is fantastic is a neat little world, and the damage mitigation you get from parry/block (something like 6.15%-ish) is great to have applied when things go correctly. However, if I pull a group of mobs with a mark, and the SMN starts to drop AEs on the ground before the mobs even get to me, I kind of have to do what I can to get everything under control and keep it under control. If I try to move everything too soon, the MNK loses dps, the DRG loses dps, I could get a mob out of flash range and it could go stick to the pre-regening WHM or the too-early BLM, etc. I burn Provoke and lose some enmity potential on the main group, etc.

It also can sometime contradict another golden rule of tanking, which is: STAND STILL. For most of the melee dps in this, positioning matters quite a bit to maximize dps, if I can moving around during a fight, they are challenged to do their job correctly. So in the perfect situation, yeah the dps and healer give 4 seconds to get everything over to me and get aggro set so I can position everything nice and pretty, but in practice you will see tanks just eating the extra 6% incoming damage to help the dps increase their output by 10-20%, or higher in some cases, as if a tank loses enmity a DPS might have to stop doing damage all together to avoid dying : D

[PessimiStick]

However, if I pull a group of mobs with a mark, and the SMN starts to drop AEs on the ground before the mobs even get to me

Let them die. They'll learn after a few deaths.

[Ehayte]

Let them die. They'll learn after a few deaths.

I'd rather save the day, then educate them verbally, but point taken.

[Yiell]

you have a point mate.

[PessimiStick]

I'd rather save the day, then educate them verbally, but point taken.

I find that bad players tend to become indignant when you correct them, but when you let them "learn" it themselves, they tend to stop. It sometimes takes complicity from the healer (i.e.: stop healing them because they're derptarded), but I find it to be fairly effective.

[Kitru]

However, if I pull a group of mobs with a mark, and the SMN starts to drop AEs on the ground before the mobs even get to me, I kind of have to do what I can to get everything under control and keep it under control.

Shadow Flare barely tickles and applies a 20% slow to everything in there, which means that s/he's attempting to reduce your incoming damage by a very healthy margin. SMN AoE is actually predicated upon DoTing up a single target and Bane-cleaving those DoTs onto everything else, which takes 3 GCDs of set up and even longer to actually generate enough enmity to pull off of a tank that has generated more than token enmity on a target. If you're losing enmity because of a SMN throwing up their AoEs, you're doing something wrong. You'll have more problems with a BLM or a WHM dropping AoEs on a group than a SMN.

[Ehayte]

Snip

Thanks for the straw-man, Captain Argue.

[wlakiz]

Actually you can't block special attacks but you can dodge and parry

[Kitru]

Thanks for the straw-man, Captain Argue.

That doesn't mean what you think it means. A straw man argument is restating your argument in simplistic terms so as to make it easier to take down. I specifically addressed a single portion of your argument that was explicitly wrong. That's a legitimate debate strategy because it undercuts the foundation of your argument by tackling it directly. A SMN dropping Shadow Flare before you start to pull (since they're not going to be able to AoE before you get to a target because, as previously mentioned, it requires that they DoT cleave) should not be a problem if you're a competent tank for the reasons I listed. You specifically stated that the SMN dropping that AoE made your life more difficult because you couldn't control the mobs as effectively; if you actually knew what you were talking about, you'd have no problem controlling the mobs.