[Dev1058] Hate Meter / Pros / Cons / Open Discussion

[northernsky]

Exactly. Right now the dev mindset is "well, we've managed to fix that nasty mess that was battle algorithms, and we're giving the players the knowledge they'll need to progress, now let's get ready to up the ante."

I'd expect combat to get much trickier with the addition of a hate meter and auto-attack. The devs aren't stupid.

This all falls in line with Yoshi's first few statements about making the game rules easy to understand, and easy to understand /= easy. If anything, it let's them make things harder.

You hit the nail on the head, this false assumption is the reason for so many useless fights around here.

Some people already seem to have forgotten the very first point of the "Battle reform blueprint", which is the reason why all of this overhaul has been undertaken:

Creating a battle system that fosters skillful play.

pretty much the opposite of "easy-mode"

[Ichi]

it just feels like it will take a some immersion out of the game, like when they displayed aggressive mobs and exact levels, kind of like the windower in ffxi that displayed distance from your target. Why not pay attention to whats happening in game to gauge these things? I know I can just turn it off but with everybody talking about their hate meters and stuff it still kind of distances us from the world.

I'm not against change I'm just worried about how far it's gonna ultimately go. Still, I'm waiting for the patches to see how it feels.

I just hope the next patch isn't gonna come with a tool tip pop-up that suggests to the player what skill to use next in combat.

[Nuru]

After all the updates we have had, i feel safe to say this.

LOLtoggle.

[Perrin_Aybarra]

Dude you know i'm right we will need a hate meter only when there's gonna be real strategic battles with mobs that can pretty much one shot or do 90% damage in one hit to any one in the party except the tank. For now... ummm NO we don't need it.

Which is what they said they were doing...

To elaborate, we are aiming to address issues such as the following:
•Victories coming with little reliance on skillful play.
•Lack of information needed for skillful play.
•No sense of accomplishment even with skillful play.
In light of the above, our objective is to implement a battle system that rewards player effort and innovation in such areas as equipment, hunting grounds, and party structure.

Lastly, in conceiving these changes, we have kept one fact close to heart: simply making enemies stronger does not equate to an environment that fosters and rewards skillful play.

maybe read the infomartions given to you before making unecessary comments.

[Physic]

i think the real new application of the hate meter will be more for stealing hate than not getting it. Stealing hate is a very useful concept. you can take hate for a few hits, or when you have certain buffs, and others can take it back. an archer could go over hate and bind in tough situation, then tank could get it back before bind wears.

That said, they said it will be a shown as a % of whoevers tanking agro, so you wont really have exact numbers, you will still have to have a good idea of how much hate they have, 80% of the hate of a glad or 80% of the hate of the mage are two totally different numbers, also that % should fluctuate a lot so it wont be THAT safe

[Kailok]

Instead of a number % or whatever they decide to go with, they should add a graphical display to show who has hate, to make it simple while also keeping you guessing if you should do a certain ability. As much as it pains me to say, WoW and Rift have this, and it works out well. I'm not saying to make it the game like WoW, I don't want that, but I think the graphical display on the player's name could work out well. I suppose it'd have to be different, considering we don't have player portraits, but I'm sure the Developers could figure out something. A number on a player or a % just feels a bit too easy

[Jinko]

I am for both hate and DPS meters, generally they help people to play better and watch what they are doing instead of guessing.

It also helps define if you have someone slacking in the party, perhaps people who are poor players would be against it but if you are a competent player then you have nothing to worry about.

[Physic]

screw dps meters, hopefully classes bring more to a fight than just hate or dps

[JayvirDeforte]

I am for both hate and DPS meters, generally they help people to play better and watch what they are doing instead of guessing.

It also helps define if you have someone slacking in the party, perhaps people who are poor players would be against it but if you are a competent player then you have nothing to worry about.

DPS is unnecessary as it is. They already display your damage. It's not like hate, which no one knows for sure. It should be easy for anyone to notice what kind of damage everyone is doing

[Lerris]

Personally I'd rather just figure it out myself, but I'm not against the idea of the hate meter it lets newer players know if they can let loose some more or need to slow down.

In the long run you will still to know hate management because you don't want to go over the threshold, the skilled players will still shine out from the less skilled ones who think having 20% hate means they can unleash a sidewinder when the tank only had 23% hate.

Read again. The percentage displayed will be a percentage of enmity of the person who currently has hate. So in your example, assuming the tank is holding hate, the percentage displayed will work out to 87%. 20% will always mean you have room to play with your powerful attacks ( unless it's the white mage being beaten on at the time )