Legit Players Banned/Punished due to RMT *FOR DUMMIES: A GUIDE*

[Aenarion]

Except on some servers there's enough supply to meet the demand and even surplus on some items - Yet items where there's high demand you have people undercutting by insane amounts, so yeah it is actually personal preference in this game currently.

There is not enough /facepalm for this.

where is your data log? what is the market trend and volume over the past weeks? you obviously have these if you're making those claims right?

ffs, the fact that ther are severe undercutting should have been a big enough hint to you that supply is outstripping demand.

Anyone with common sense would know 7-10 million for a rose gold ingot is far from reasonable

probably because you are the only one who mentioned 10 mil rosegold ingot, leave the strawman at home please.

even 1 million when you look at how the items to make everything only totals 350k at times currently.

and if people are buying r.ingot at 1 mil when the tomestone items are at 70k, then they're stupid.

[Tupsi]

There is not enough /facepalm for this.

Indeed, the undercutting is facepalm worthy.

and if people are buying r.ingot at 1 mil when the tomestone items are at 70k, then they're stupid.

According to you it's "not personal preference" though, huh?

[Aenarion]

It's at least partially the seller's own fault for putting their goods up for ridiculously outrageous prices. People would be much less tempted to buy RMT gil if prices were reasonable.

I'm not sure if you realize how terrible the logic you're using is, it's the classic blame the victim routine. Do you blame the victim of a carjacking for driving too nice of a car?

Indeed, the undercutting is facepalm worthy.

only if the undercutting is so severe as make the seller become unprofitable (assuming that isn't his intended goal).

According to you it's "not personal preference" though, huh?

It isn't, do not confuse preference with stupidity. Even in Eve there are those who still cannot grasp the concept of opportunity cost and think the ores they mined are free.

people like you wouldn't survive a day in market systems in games like Eve.

[Kaedan]

I'm not sure if you realize how terrible the logic you're using is, it's the classic blame the victim routine. Do you blame the victim of a carjacking for driving too nice of a car?

I don't think you could have come up with a more terrible analogy. lol

Here's a real life one: If someone steals $1 million dollars from a bank and the authorities can track the stolen money, that money is confiscated from the people it was paid to. That's exactly what SE is doing here. RMT'd money is, for lack of a better term, illegal in the game and is thus confiscated.

As I have now said for the 3rd time, I agree that sellers should get the items that were bought with RMT gil back, but the gil is correctly being removed.

[Codek]

I don't think you could have come up with a more terrible analogy. lol

Here's a real life one: If someone steals $1 million dollars from a bank and the authorities can track the stolen money, that money is confiscated from the people it was paid to. That's exactly what SE is doing here. RMT'd money is, for lack of a better term, illegal in the game and is thus confiscated.

As I have now said for the 3rd time, I agree that sellers should get the items that were bought with RMT gil back, but the gil is correctly being removed.

Even if all the items were returned, it would just crash the market from the huge surplus of goods that would then be put up. I could even guess the value would be around 1% of the original selling price (even now the prices have dropped a bit without the returning of goods). I don't think that would actually solve anything.

[Kaedan]

Even if all the items were returned, it would just crash the market from the huge surplus of goods that would then be put up. I could even guess the value would be around 1% of the original selling price (even now the prices have dropped a bit without the returning of goods). I don't think that would actually solve anything.

That's fine. Most items were marked up 100+ times what they should have been anyway. That's what tempted people to buy RMT gil to purchase them.

What's important is that the RMT gil was removed. You're not getting it back and there's no rational argument for why you should get it back. If you don't want the items back and would rather whine some more, I'll take them off your hands!

Except for the fact that SE has already deemed these people innocent of knowingly being involved in RMT and reinstated their accounts, but took their gil away anyway..

The fact they were innocent of knowingly participating in RMT is completely besides the point. If gil was removed, it was gil that was from an RMT source. It's exactly what real police do when they track stolen money... they confiscate it. SE should give the items that were bought with it back, however.

[Codek]

That's fine. Most items were marked up 100+ times what they should have been anyway. That's what tempted people to buy RMT gil to purchase them.

What's important is that the RMT gil was removed. You're not getting it back and there's no rational argument for why you should get it back. If you don't want the items back and would rather whine some more, I'll take them off your hands!

I would just wish it to not crash the market, I like playing it right now!

Maybe a free house! Give those affected a free house in 2.1! or a car!

Better yet:

[Schubalts]

The fact they were innocent of knowingly participating in RMT is completely besides the point. If gil was removed, it was gil that was from an RMT source. It's exactly what real police do when they track stolen money... they confiscate it. SE should give the items that were bought with it back, however.

So 99% of all of those people's gil came directly from someone who bought gil? Exactly 99%? If the police have evidence that you unknowingly received stolen or counterfeit money, they don't clear out 99% of your bank account, they charge you with returning exactly the amount that was confirmed stolen or counterfeit (and you can even file to have goods sold unknowingly for that money returned to you).

[Aenarion]

I don't think you could have come up with a more terrible analogy. lol

Don't blame me for your inability to properly comprehend what you read.

First, it was to counter your assertion that crafters were somehow to blame for the illicit activities of others, which is a question of morality, not legality. Inadvertent strawman is still a strawman, try again.

Second, trying to use RL laws and ordinances (which btw, varies depending on jurisdictions) is also terrible, as SE is not beholden to follow those in the slightest within the game world.

Note that I am not actually taking anyone's side here. In my own experience, this who cry foul generally turn out to be guilty in the end, though mistakes do occasionally happen (especially taking into consideration this is SE... gardening anyone?).

What I take issue with are the implications that crafters somehow have a duty to sell stuff as cheaply as possible to buyers, even at a loss, and that not doing so means they are to blame for people buying gil.

[ashikenshin]

What I take issue with are the implications that crafters somehow have a duty to sell stuff as cheaply as possible to buyers, even at a loss, and that not doing so means they are to blame for people buying gil.

noone is saying this at all.

What is being said is that: normal players cannot reach 500k through normal play questing and such. There wasn't enough gil income in the game. Gil was being duped and there was a lot of gil on the market. Players started selling stuff that would normally would have sold for 10-30k for 70k. Crafters started buying that crap and selling the crafted items for 1-7 million. Gil buyers then in their laziness started buying gil to get the 20 million gil required to get that gear.

You were all in the cycle.

The gil had to be removed from the market. It was removed.