XIV WAR Tanking - Baseline Mitigation and PLD comparison

[Terabyt3]

I can see you're mad, but to say that PLD does overall more DPS than warrior is just ridiculous.

I'll be back when Turn 4 is down with a screenshot.

have you done any comparisons? Or is this just your gut feeling? Go parser it mate you'll see.

Again who cares what coil you're on thats not the topic lol. You trolling or what?

PLD has conv too btw... except it does 30% for him......

Go look at post #44 maths dont lie. If you still wanna believe static mit beats scaling you're either an idiot or so stubborn you may aswell be. Oh btw my main is WAR too. Even I know when the numbers show the things they do it's hard to argue with the evidence.


Answer me one question. With your perfect rotation. In a 2 minute fight how much damage can you mitigate through self healing?

Then take that number and multiply it by 4 (average 25% mitigation from a pld).

As soon as dps exceeds that number PLD becomes more effective. Its THAT simple.

[Kitru]

The DPS is NOT the same.

No, it's not, but it's so close that the difference doesn't matter. Check out my sig if you have any questions. The only time you're going to see a major difference in DPS/enmity is when one is played like an idiot and the other is played competently.

PLD has to use Shield Oath and what Offensive cooldowns do they have? Tell me please.

Fight or Flight, Spirits Within, Circle of Scorn. Fight or Flight is nearly twice as powerful as Berserk. Spirits Within and Circle of Scorn account for more than 15% of a PLDs total DPS. A WAR has Unchained (lol), Berserk, and Internal Release. The only way you'd think that WAR somehow gets more than a PLD is if you simply don't know what one of them gets.

I was tanking FINE.

Which doesn't mean that you wouldn't be getting better performance out of a PLD. No one that knows what they're talking about has claimed that WAR cannot complete content. The argument is that WAR can complete content much more easily than WAR can, not just from a playstyle perspective, but from a fundamental mechanical advantage perspective.

[Kitru]

Also, SCH helps. I guess this is coming from groups that run 2 WHM's lol.

PLD actually gets more out of SCH than WAR does. That's not just opinion; that's math. If you honestly don't know this, you really need to learn what the hell you're trying to talk about.

[VahnValbosce]

Go parser it mate you'll see.

Who's running the Parser? WAR's that don't know how to use their Offensives properly?

What coil I'm on and what coil I beat matters, and it IS the topic. Everyone's problem is that WAR for some reason "Cannot" do endgame content, and here I am, doing it. So PLD is the mitigation tank and WAR is the HP Pool tank. +15% constant is way better than PLD's 30% for 20 seconds. Pretty sure I don't even need to run the numbers there to figure that out. WAR regular enmity rotation is higher, you seem to completely forget Maim (Constant +20% DMG Output) and Storms Eye (to lower slash resist by 10%). Most warriors forget that they can even put in a DPS rotation between enmity rotations. Also, when multiple enemies are on me I pop Vengence for tick DMG, AoE'ing mobs in Turn 4 during AoE phases with overpower and Offensive GCD's.

What is PLD doing? Popping defensive GCD and rotating to RoH, with the ocassional FoF.

[VahnValbosce]

PLD actually gets more out of SCH than WAR does. That's not just opinion; that's math. If you honestly don't know this, you really need to learn what the hell...

Ok.

I see I've entered the numbers game and there's just no swaying you. I think I already know that PLD has more mitigation. My arguement is that PLD does NOT do the same amount of DMG as a skilled WAR that know what they're doing. This is honestly just getting out of hand and this "numbers" community really needs to start using the right hemisphere of their brain to see that WAR is a creative tank and functions fine under skilled hands.

It looks like you've re-rolled to a caster or something? There's no point in arguing this with the "numbers" people, they'll just continue to put ideas into peoples heads that corrupt the playerbase. What was funny is that our group had to pug a PLD for Turn 1. He stated that I'd be "Eaten. Whole" I loved proving him wrong though, was really fun.

[Jediman]

the higher hp pool is only there to allow us to take a hit and THEN recover.

"the higher hp pool is only there to allow us to take a hit and THEN recover."

Don't you think thats bit like dark knight when they will release it. There are still jobs class that might be release based on Final fantasy XI (since half of the team doing split work)

WAR =DPS why because of the 2 hand weapon more sewing goes to it bit like samurai and dark knight in final fantasy XI...

This will solve the problem rather having WAR as tank and have it unbalance class because war class would want the same thing as PLD.

What is being ask now is for WAR to do more damage and use skill to heal more after that.

[Gamemako]

Who's running the Parser? WAR's that don't know how to use their Offensives properly?

I love the logic. "I can't be wrong, so the numbers must be wrong!" It's silly.

[VahnValbosce]

I love the logic. "I can't be wrong, so the numbers must be wrong!" It's silly.

What are you complaining about, all of you.

I'm ON TURN 4 COIL, ARE YOU?

Turn 4 Coil as ALREADY been beaten with a WAR tank, do you even realize this???

Nobody really wants to hear anymore crying about how PLD is so much easier to tank with, it's really degrading the community as a whole.

[Terabyt3]

What are you complaining about, all of you.

I'm ON TURN 4 COIL, ARE YOU?

Turn 4 Coil as ALREADY been beaten with a WAR tank, do you even realize this???

Nobody really wants to hear anymore crying about how PLD is so much easier to tank with, it's really degrading the community as a whole.

You've still not answered my question.

With your "Perfect rotation" how much damage can you mitgate over a 2 minute fight through selff heals seeing as that is a wars for of mitigation?

[Kitru]

I see I've entered the numbers game and there's just no swaying you.

Except that you haven't entered the numbers game because you're not paying attention to the numbers. You're simply running around screaming that you're right while ignoring *really* simply concepts.

My arguement is that PLD does NOT do the same amount of DMG as a skilled WAR that know what they're doing.

And my argument, that you seem to be ignoring, is that the difference between a skilled PLD and a skilled WAR isn't what you seem to think it is. Just because you have no idea what a skilled PLD can do and compare that to what a skilled WAR can do doesn't mean that your comparison is even remotely valid. In fact, it means quite the opposite.

[quote] This is honestly just getting out of hand and this "numbers" community really needs to start using the right hemisphere of their brain to see that WAR is a creative tank and functions fine under skilled hands.

It looks like you've re-rolled to a caster or something?

I still main as a WAR. I've got PLD at 50 as well. I've also got SCH/SMN at 50 and am working on WHM. The only reason you're seeing the WHM gear is because that's the last thing I did last night.

There's no point in arguing this with the "numbers" people, they'll just continue to put ideas into peoples heads that corrupt the playerbase.

And then you have people like you who are so sure of their own importance and incorruptibility that they'll ignore any evidence that contradicts their own worldview while simultaneously ranting about how the worldview of others is ignorant because you think that it doesn't include a couple variables from your own worldview when, if you actually knew what was being discussed, you'd know that it did.

Seriously, if you don't like math, don't get involved. That's what balance is: numbers. It doesn't matter if a class is skill based or purely passive, the numbers matter. If you're not able to do the math, stop trying to argue that they don't matter just because you don't understand them and it makes you feel stupid when they're brought up and it hurts your feelings.