"Fix Warrior" Threads

[Gamemako]

All subjective to personal opinion and player skill.

No, it's all math and numbers.

How about WAR's stop blowing their wrath on IB? IB is only used when you have infuriate up to instantly restore your 5 stacks.

You've got 3 main issues here:

1) Infuriate has a cooldown.
2) You're seriously telling everyone to entirely stop using the main burst mitigation ability of the job.
3) Doing so, you'd end up as a gimped PLD at best (less than 15% average recovery compared to 25% effective recovery for PLD, basically no burst mitigation whatsoever)

[Kitru]

just editted OP, i say check it out and give me your thoughts.

You deserve a lot of your flame because you explicitly state that you think that WAR was designed to be offtank when that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and isn't even supported by the math or mechanics of the class.

Also, your self-heal to shield idea does next to nothing to actually address the discrepancy. All your idea does is prevent the IB heal from being wasted on overhealing, which isn't a problem with WAR. The problem with WAR is that their mitigation doesn't scale with incoming damage. Absolute all of their self healing could be turned into absorb shields and it wouldn't make an impact. You're completely missing what the actual problem is. On top of that, you came up with a laughable simple solution that you think will solve all of the problems while admitting that you're completely and utterly ignorant of the math behind everything.

Your post effectively admits that you have no idea what you're talking about and yet you choose to continue talking about it whether you know what you're talking about or not. You're not adding to the discussion because you're a month and a half *behind* the discussion and, even then, making suggestions that people knew were back even back then.

[Kitru]

You've got 3 main issues here:

Except that he's right. Outside of Infuriate, where the cost is negated, and situational use while Berserk is active (i.e. you're low on hp and your healers aren't able to top you off before you die in the next GCD), Inner Beast is not an effective mitigation tool. As a rule of thumb, Inner Beast should only be used when you have Infuriate. There are a few situations where you want to use it otherwise, but, a *vast* majority of the time, you want to just use your Wrath V stacks.

[Gamemako]

Except that he's right. Outside of Infuriate, where the cost is negated, and situational use while Berserk is active (i.e. you're low on hp and your healers aren't able to top you off before you die in the next GCD), Inner Beast is not an effective mitigation tool. As a rule of thumb, Inner Beast should only be used when you have Infuriate. There are a few situations where you want to use it otherwise, but, a *vast* majority of the time, you want to just use your Wrath V stacks.

Oh, I certainly agree. I could go dig up the math elsewhere where I pointed out that using IB at all is not efficient due to the loss of the wrath stacks. The point is that you're not actually getting anything out of that strategy either.

[Leiron]

The notion that Warriors want the same amount of mitigation as a Paladin is a joke, not only is the difference negible,

The difference is about 10% between Shield oath and Defiance alone.
When you consider Paladin's cooldowns, being able to block, it becomes much greater.
Its not a matter of Paladin being easier, but a matter of Paladin being significantly better that there isn't a true reason to use it over a Warrior.

[Kitru]

Oh, I certainly agree. I could go dig up the math elsewhere where I pointed out that using IB at all is not efficient due to the loss of the wrath stacks. The point is that you're not actually getting anything out of that strategy either.

You're getting more out of the Wrath hoarding strategy compared to the active IB use strategy. Both strategies still get less than was a PLD gets by just standing around, which is what I'm guessing is your point. The point the individual you quoted was trying to make, I believe, is coming from a WAR optimization perspective rather than a PLD/WAR comparative perspective.

[Gamemako]

Both strategies still get less than was a PLD gets by just standing around, which is what I'm guessing is your point.

Right, I'm just saying that the nature of the "strategy" is just playing should-have-rolled-PLD. Eliminating IB for burst mitigation leaves you with no real burst mitigation to speak of -- you seriously just eat hits and recover 15% more HP all day compared to PLD's effective 25%. Infuriate's 60-second cooldown means that you get a negligible HP boost from IB when you can use it. Your only remaining effective burst mitigation is ToB, and that's 120s CD and a rather small effect. What you are if you do that is a gimped PLD with no burst mitigation, identical eHP, and lower effective recovery. If you use this strategy at all, you've already accepted that WAR is hopelessly gimped in endgame content and are playing it as close to PLD as possible. Yet, somehow, the poster is off pretending that WAR is balanced because he used a strategy as near to gimped PLD as you can get.

[Hundred]

That problem is that WARs main form of mitigation is self healing. and that mitigation is STATIC. Regardless of if you are fighting a doormouse or titan or cacadeus, with the perfect rotation you will always heal for x ammount.

This shouldn't be a problem IMO. Healers heals don't scale based on Enemy damage, they scale like the Warrior on their on output. The WAR's inner beast remains relevant from the moment you get it. Storm path doesn't however, it healed me for 2-3% of my health when I first got it, which wasn't very practical of it's own accord but it's more damage after Maim. I observe coil runs and it changes from 2-3% to 1-2%. The % barely shifted and it doesn't matter because it healed for almost nothing from the very moment you get it.

If I look at WAR from my own experience
Storm path doesn't heal for anything even in the early game and needs to absorb for more.
Brutal swing's animation speed is fairly long for a stun even if it is off the gcd, shaving .3s on the animation would be felt.
Mercy stroke is not a practical healing skill given the 20% condition and then on-kill condition and should likely be reassessed I use it more and see it used more as just a dps increase. The frequency you can use it just means you can throw it out for damage more often than a PLD, because using it as a heal isn't even real life.


Do any of these things change from early game to Coil? From what I've observed, the answer is really no, it only shows more clearly. Two of it's class self-heals don't work that well from the beginning so how can they be meaningful mitigation end-game? All the WAR's I watch completing Coils, do it pretty much without using either of those two skills as self heals, which means they aren't used for mitigation...so they're not helping WAR's survive. It's not a skill issue (well I guess landing Mercy stroke on some level is) but that they aren't practical heals.

[Surfie]

First, there isn't an official "off-tank" role. Otherwise, you'd be able to queue as an Offtank.

Second, Warriors weren't designed to be off-tanks. If they were, don't you think Provoke would be a baseline ability for Marauders then? Taunt is better for the off-tank than it is for the main-tank.

[antiviolence]

Still waiting on Taemak to post on his 'main'.