Yoshi P talks about Warriors- from Producer Letter Live @ TGS

[HiirNoivl]

Thing about the math is all the data is relative to your input, and most of the time it doesn't neccessairly account for experience or rotations. I've heard alot of interesting ideas that I've never seen anyone else use that could be invaluable, but I still hear tons of people say silly stuff like you have to eat some Slipstreams on Garuda yet you can dodge every single one of them without consequence if you know what your doing.

For example, I have a buddy in my FC who was wondering how come I was doing more damage though we were both wearing the same gear on MNK yet he has a +1 Relic. It came down to rotations, I was popping Blood for Blood/Internal release every chance I got, and using Perfect Balance > Snap Punch x3 to build up Greased Lightning's effect when it was down, and throwing out my Howling Fists only with B4B and IR up usually critting multiple mobs for 500+.

I liked your post, Sword.

That's what I've been noticing too. I called for people to post their builds and parses but all I ever get out of the naysayers are hypothetical reasons for why WAR is not as good as PLD/is not viable for endgame. They don't post parses, they don't post builds or stat allocations, they don't post rotations and they don't post videos. I wonder if some of them actually play WAR to be honest.

Now in my experience I've tried some suggestions that they've made and some of what they've posted has turned out to be true. In most cases, holding Wrath V is better than using Inner Beast unless your Inner Beast is pumped really high. I've learned that based on the theorycrafting, Bloodbath needs to be more significant than just using it on its own, etc.

So the theorycrafting isn't ALL wrong. However, when I see people's issues that they have with WAR and saying that it's not viable at all or that it's broken, I find that there are ways in-Game to remedy the "problems with WAR". For example, finding ways to increase your damage dealt. Using abilities in combination to maximize their effectiveness. Learn to work the mechanics of the fight to your advantage.

I still envy PLDs their debuffs... man I wish I could stun every GCD... Or blind my enemies. But I just have to deal with that my own way.

My experience and my rotations have overcome WARs supposed limitations thus far. And while I'm still looking forward to Turns 3 and 4, I'm feeling really good about WARs viability at endgame currently.

EDIT: Derza, You've posted nothing. Yes, I did show DPS as high as 168 on stationary targets because people were saying that WAR doesn't DPS more than PLD. I also posted parses to show that WAR crit Rate surpasses what it should be in theory. I've posted Videos so you can see what I'm doing and all people say was "Coil Please" and they didn't pay attention to what I was doing, or how well it was working (I use much of the same methods on Garuda as I do on Caduceus except the cooldowns are more spread out.)

I'm showing you plenty but you close your eyes and just keep repeating the same theoretical gibberish. People go with PLD cause they don't know any better, and they're fool into believing that people can play the game as well as they theorycraft. Which is becoming more and more obvious that theory is just that. Sometimes practice belies the theory.

But keep clinging to your charts and numbers. We could have cleared Turn 2 yesterday, but it was midnight and I was gonna start derping any minute.

[Derza]

I liked your post, Sword.

That's what I've been noticing too. I called for people to post their builds and parses but all I ever get out of the naysayers are hypothetical reasons for why WAR is not as good as PLD/is not viable for endgame. They don't post parses, they don't post builds or stat allocations, they don't post rotations and they don't post videos. I wonder if some of them actually play WAR to be honest.

Now in my experience I've tried some suggestions that they've made and some of what they've posted has turned out to be true. In most cases, holding Wrath V is better than using Inner Beast unless your Inner Beast is pumped really high. I've learned that based on the theorycrafting, Bloodbath needs to be more significant than just using it on its own, etc.

So the theorycrafting isn't ALL wrong. However, when I see people's issues that they have with WAR and saying that it's not viable at all or that it's broken, I find that there are ways in-Game to remedy the "problems with WAR". For example, finding ways to increase your damage dealt. Using abilities in combination to maximize their effectiveness. Learn to work the mechanics of the fight to your advantage.

I still envy PLDs their debuffs... man I wish I could stun every GCD... Or blind my enemies. But I just have to deal with that my own way.

My experience and my rotations have overcome WARs supposed limitations thus far. And while I'm still looking forward to Turns 3 and 4, I'm feeling really good about WARs viability at endgame currently.

The thing i don't think you understand is... All the warriors CD's as well as IB used in perfect rotation is SOMETIMES enough in hard hitting encounters to overcome the difference in a paladin that uses no CD's and is just in shield oath. In any fight where a boss does about 400 dps (closer to 350 vs a paladin that uses any cooldowns) a warrior is going to require a shit ton more healing, Having a good rotation /optimized gear is only pushing you to the point of being as good as a no CD using paladin tanking.

And what has your parsing shown us? Do you get any tanking stats out of it? I think all you do is show dps and that somehow changes everything? I mean calculations have been done using a warrior tank doing 100 ish dps and hitting an average of 2k inner beast heals (way higher than the average really is I should add)... and that puts you at about where you would be equal with a paladin if incoming damage is ~ 400 dps... anything over that and the paladin is better - anything under and the warrior is better. The problem is if the dps is sub 400 dps - its easy content and both classes can do it with no problem, when it gets to 600+ incoming dps warriors have a hard time doing content and all the "mitigation" is being shifted to the healers - so people go with paladins.

[Leiron]

I liked your post, Sword.

Course you do, you agree with him.

That's what I've been noticing too. I called for people to post their builds and parses

DPS parses are meaningless, and it was explained that going all strength barely increased your damage to the point of it being wothwhile.
The only argument that can be made is strengthening inner beast, even then, you can't make it strong enough to cover the massive boss damage
The rest of your post is just nonsense.

[Ninjiitstu]

DPS parses are meaningless, and it was explained that going all strength barely increased your damage to the point of it being wothwhile.
The only argument that can be made is strengthening inner beast, even then, you can't make it strong enough to cover the massive boss damage
The rest of your post is just nonsense.

That isn't true. To simply STR: 3 STR = 1 Damage. Adding 30 STR is 10 damage, which a average Bravura auto attack is around 120~. 10 damage is roughly 8%. That is with Bravura standard. STR becomes better with Bravura +1, as well.

The max strength you can get is 465 without a potion(545 with a pot for 15s). For most of us, that is around 40 extra damage, or a increase of 32%.

This is all multiplied by Berserk, Maim, and Storms Eye, Critical Hits, ETC.

You wouldn't be a tank anymore, but to say its worthless is just completely false.

[Leiron]

You wouldn't be a tank anymore, but to say its worthless is just completely false.

You are establishing yourself as someone who argues for the sake of arguing and not because there is something to argue. We were referencing from a TANK view. So your entire post? A waste of time.
Parses are worthless. You do not need to do a parse for Warriors.
Why? Your DPS is piss poor, it contributes little to nothing in long term, which is...everything.
This isn't a game like WoW or RIFT where a Tank can do some nasty DPS comparable to a DPS. If that is what you have in mind, wipe it out.

Str allocating= worthless. It does not affect the damage of your Inner beast nearly enough to make it worthwhile and it detracts from your HP too greatly.

Damage from bosses scales MUCH faster than the 300% heal from IB.
To suggest otherwise is false, so even if we assumed Warriors are fine currently, as the content becomes more and more difficult, Inner Beast becomes weaker and weaker.
DPS parsing is worthless and Warriors are behind.

[Ninjiitstu]

We were referencing from a TANK view.

No, we are referencing Warriors. Hence the OP title. It was your assumption of tank, not the other way around.

Why? Your DPS is piss poor, it contributes little to nothing in long term, which is...everything.

DPS parsing is worthless and Warriors are behind.

1: Having 250~ish DPS is not piss poor. That is just about the top end of what everyone else can do.
2: DPS Parsing is not worthless. It has plenty of valuable information.
3: Why are you leveling a warrior then, kiddo? Your level 36. You have a 50 PLD. Shocker there, btw.

[Leiron]

No, we are referencing Warriors. Hence the OP title. It was your assumption of tank, not the other way around.

You're not smart, you're not witty, you're not impressing anyone, you're a fool.
You know what's witty, asking you what role Warrior's fulfill. Take your time, I know you're a bit slower than most.

1: Having 250~ish DPS is not piss poor. That is just about the top end of what everyone else can do.

I laughed.

2: DPS Parsing is not worthless. It has plenty of valuable information.

DPS parsing worthless for tanks? Yes.

3: Why are you leveling a warrior then, kiddo? Your level 36. You have a 50 PLD. Shocker there, btw.

The job that I play is completely irrelevant towards my opinions, quit being desperate because you cannot articulate a proper argument to save your life.
Warrior was my original job though if you must know.

[Ninjiitstu]

The job that I play is completely irrelevant towards my opinions, quit being desperate because you cannot articulate a proper argument to save your life.
Warrior was my original job though if you must know.

I cannot articulate a argument? All you have said is X is worthless, or I laughed. You have not argued anything. You gave your opinion, which is wrong and has no basis of fact behind it. You are level 36. You don't know what its like. You also haven't set foot in Coils. Not exactly a whole lot of reason to take your opinion, now is there?