Yoshi P talks about Warriors- from Producer Letter Live @ TGS

[konflikti]

I believe part of the WAR problem is also due to poor end-game itemization. There is very limited amount of high end gear and it mostly favours PLD style tanking, because of the limited pool of stats provided by them (ie. PLD gets all the advantage of parry, with the additional benefit of having a shield). Also because both wear the exact same gear, it highlights the advantages of PLD skillset, which deal in absolutes, while WAR has to depend more on gear... which again statistically favours PLD.

[Duelle]

I believe part of the WAR problem is also due to poor end-game itemization. There is very limited amount of high end gear and it mostly favours PLD style tanking, because of the limited pool of stats provided by them (ie. PLD gets all the advantage of parry, with the additional benefit of having a shield). Also because both wear the exact same gear, it highlights the advantages of PLD skillset, which deal in absolutes, while WAR has to depend more on gear... which again statistically favours PLD.

The fact that tank gear is for the most part unified is moot. If anything, it removes culpability from gear and places it entirely on the jobs' design. Hence why the "wait until you have crystal tower gear" excuse is flimsy at best.

[Chimaira]

Hello, im playing WAR since 1.0, the balances in the 2.0 are qiote differents as how it was in past, imho i never had a problem on anything with WAR right now, yes on titan SOMETIMES u get 4.0k (but most of the time is 3.2k)hits but.. u can just save inner beast full buffed and get your hp back, thats what i did:
internal relase> berserk> inner beast> infuriate> inner beast (yes u cant always use those CD ihmo inner beast isnt crap at all)
and geuss, what healer had to use the same amount of mp for a pld they had no problem at all to keep me up and i was only using the HDL armor. iv seen many war "wasting" inner beast when they dont have to like when they are full HP...
so yeah if you come to say that WAR take more dmg than pld. its obvious but at the same time, you can get it back with the proper action u can even add bloodbath on the inner beast it will be something like 150+ more hp

[Chimaira]

i think right now ppl just complain on WAR because is more technically to use compared to just spam CD on PLD, and probably the healer had bad experiences with bad players. however its just an opinion. im not giving up on WAR i like it how is it

[konflikti]

The fact that tank gear is for the most part unified is moot. If anything, it removes culpability from gear and places it entirely on the jobs' design. Hence why the "wait until you have crystal tower gear" excuse is flimsy at best.

It is not moot point at all, if PLD is ahead to begin with and then also benefits from the same gear more. Yes, unified gear shows that PLD is superior with same gear as WAR. The biggest disparency imo is that PLD gets the same stats from shield and sword as WAR gets from axe + shield mitigation as bonus for free.

I think you understood me claiming that itemization from CT would fix warrior, but what I am saying is that WAR is the underdog and that having same gear as PLD definately does not help.

[Duelle]

It is not moot point at all, if PLD is ahead to begin with and then also benefits from the same gear more. Yes, unified gear shows that PLD is superior with same gear as WAR. The biggest disparency imo is that PLD gets the same stats from shield and sword as WAR gets from axe + shield mitigation as bonus for free.

This was more than likely intentional because at the end of the day, a tank roster works when both tanks perform at the same level without decreasing the raid's chances of success. There's obviously an issue if WAR has developed a bit of a stigma due to discrepancies with PLD. As I said, the gear is fine. The source of the problem is WAR's design.

This is also why, despite what some whiners wanted, WAR is not notably superior DPS compared to PLD. If they did that you'd return to FFXIV 1.19 where PLD was garbage and WAR was the end-all-be-all of tanking. Ideally the result of balancing tanks is that the raid can have a PLD and a WAR, two PLDs, or two WARs and still yield the same results without making either set up "easier" or "difficult".

I think you understood me claiming that itemization from CT would fix warrior, but what I am saying is that WAR is the underdog and that having same gear as PLD definately does not help.

I'm not accusing you of it, but I'm starting to see that argument popping up. iLvl80 gear from Crystal Tower is not going to undo that mess. If tank gear is unified all it means is the gear props up WAR AND PLD, which brings WAR back to square one.

[Yiell]

After reading all 67 pages, All I see are hates and bitterness over PLD. The way I see it, PLD is easier to use. WAR is complicated to master.

and both are good tanks.

[JormungandrVanagandr]

After reading all 67 pages, All I see are hates and bitterness over PLD. The way I see it, PLD is easier to use. WAR is complicated to master.

If a Warrior is complicated to master, it should therefore be better in the hands of a good, knowledgeable player.
...But it isn't.

You've seen 67 pages of people going into the math behind all of our abilities and we just...don't come out on top. How deeply lodged into the crevasses of my Warrior's anus can this secret to being amazing be that ALL OF US are missing?

[Yiell]

If a Warrior is complicated to master, it should therefore be better in the hands of a good, knowledgeable player.
...But it isn't.

You've seen 67 pages of people going into the math behind all of our abilities and we just...don't come out on top. How deeply lodged into the crevasses of my Warrior's anus can this secret to being amazing be that ALL OF US are missing?

I don't want to look like an ass but SOMEBODY mastered his class.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...age-mitigation.

And this guy

*shrug* Warrior tanks just fine, requires persistent research and rotation/macro design catering to each fight but let's do some simple math coupled with some research and apply it to the developers for a second. 8 classes in the game, coincidentally 8 spots in end game content. 2 healers, 6 DPS in the game each catering to very specific tasks/buffs/play styles and this includes 2 tanks. Only 1 can hold aggro, static abilities and stats favor the paladin so the question is where does the warrior stand? We are the Off tank, designed to pick up adds and swap from pseudo tanking to pseudo DPS because, should the paladin die, we have the ability to instantly swap to tank mode and hold aggro long enough for the rez debuff to were off where the paladin uses- surprise- an ability that puts them automatically to top enmity +1 to continue the fight.

[Giantbane]

I don't want to look like an ass but SOMEBODY mastered his class.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...age-mitigation.

And this guy

that thread is not a very good guide and full of misinformation