Some surprising data in regards to SMN dps vs BLM dps

[KroLeXz]

I calculated my dps by multiplying ruin dmg 200 * 123pps / ruin potency 80 = dps with no crits. Gave me 307.50 dps.

[Kevee]

Oh okay, then whoever told me they don't scale was lying.

Do we know if they scale with offstats as well?

I'm fairly sure they scale off of crit, unless they have a ~10% base crit chance. I'll go test that now.

[KroLeXz]

I would think crit had a higher weight to our dps considering every 3 seconds we have 4 dots/a ruin/pet attack all with individual chances to crit. Also Fester sometimes mixed into that equation.

[pandabearcat]

Again, its a fallacy to think "crit matters more" because you have more attacks.

1 hit for 1 million critting will average out to the same damage as 1 million hits for 1 damage critting.

But I am inclined to agree crit is better than det, because of the high WD (esp with relic+1) and INT people are getting, making crit a much bigger multiplier than DTR, which is a static increase.

[Kevee]

I'm fairly sure they scale off of crit, unless they have a ~10% base crit chance. I'll go test that now.

Pets definitely get crit contribution from our gear.

341(base crit):

http://i.imgur.com/TsaGItl.jpg

464 crit:

http://i.imgur.com/n2wY7Xo.jpg

[Claire_Pendragon]

I dont know if this was mentioned, but reading through a few other threads before, I kept hearing 1 of the parser programs had a glitch, that put SMNs 30% more higher in DPS than it should, and wasnt working right for SMN. (Any other class it was fine.)

But this was just 1 program, and since I dont use them, i didnt bother to remember the name.

Again, its a fallacy to think "crit matters more" because you have more attacks.

1 hit for 1 million critting will average out to the same damage as 1 million hits for 1 damage critting.

But I am inclined to agree crit is better than det, because of the high WD (esp with relic+1) and INT people are getting, making crit a much bigger multiplier than DTR, which is a static increase.

Its originated from crits proccing an effect, such as refreshing a cool down on some ability, etc.

But now everyone thinks it matters, even w/o a proc based on crits.

[Crescent_Dusk]

//Ohhhh, pet attacks. That's like 185-190 per 3 seconds. Basically less than a Scathe.
//

except pet attacks are free, scathe uses a gcd, a gcd that a summoner can use with ruin 2 or bio or fester or swiftcast bio2/miasma, bio is instant cast, you can use swift cast to either miasma two or bio 2, and you only have to spend 2.5 seconds hard casting one more dot to get full potential of fester. you can ignore thunder for now if the phase is super heavy movement.

SUMMONER MOBILITY IS GOOD.

Pet attacks are not free. They are substracted from your damage total. Scathe does much more damage than a Ruin 2 for that reason, and in between scathing you have casting opportunities to hang on to procs like firestarter or thundercloud. BLM mobile damage is not BAD.

I play both BLM and SMN and I don't buy all this doom and gloom garbage about BLM. BLM has problems, but mobility is not one of them.

[point09micron]

So basically with analysis of BLM we get the ideal case where they deal basically identical DPS standstill.

This is what I don't get. Full disclosure: I'm only lv.32 BLM currently, but it seems to me that if a fight requires a lot of movement, Scathe is an option?

Using a similar analysis to some I saw earlier in the thread, and assuming that 1 in 5 does double damage:
120*4 + 240 = 720 potency
5 casts * 2.5 seconds per = 12.5 seconds
720/12.5 = 57.6 potency per second

Sure it's not the huge damage that a BLM can do from a stop, but do note that it's like 60% stronger than Thunder, Miasma, or Bio II.

Again, not based on personal endgame experience, but I just don't see how people can conclude BLMs are completely helpless if they have to move around when we have an instant-cast nuke with an average potency of 140.

[Crescent_Dusk]

Because it's all hyperbole. When you aren't doing the mobile DPS of a bard, you are "weak and worthless".

Just look at the monk thread. One of the highest DPS classes that happens to be among those with the highest skill ceiling gets the most complaints about being UP. Not that melee don't have valid grievances in Coil, but you can still perform great in there. The question of whether it's more or less forgiving is moot once people learn and perfect their execution of encounters.

[point09micron]

Well, if this chart (under Rate) is showing that multiplier then I would say that:

I don't see how "Rate" could be showing the damage multiplier under all levels of Astral Fire. I don't have AF3 yet, but nukes under AF2 clearly do more damage than under AF1, so the multiplier can't be the same across the board.