The opportunity cost of shield bash is too darned high

[Stryker]

snip

Why are you bringing war into this. That has nothing to do with it.

I agree with the OP. I can tank Ifrit HM while stunning and MT, doesn't make it fun. Doesn't make it balanced either. Being a stun bot is an awfully boring thing, and it doesn't help that probably 90% (arbitrary % based upon personal experience) of bosses are immune to stun in most instances. Only in the end game content is it utilized heavily. So PLD goes from tanking to having to stun bot. Also weaving in combos with a stun on GCD means that you can't go as hard as you'd like because you have to leave a buffer in case your last combo triggers GCD when you need the stun.

That's stupid, when people start to have relic or weapons of higher Ilvl than you they pull hate like crazy. I have an ifrits sword, my FC has relics and are moving to relic +1. I try to tank for them but jesus christ their dmg output is insane. So having to stun bot and try to get as much hate from the RoH combo is impossible. The counter argument to that is they should slow down their dps, yes that's true but at the same time, speed runs, or just farming in general you try to complete it as fast as possible.

That is the opportunity cost. But I feel like we should get away from using any terms based out of Economics since many in this community struggle to grasp those concepts.

So yes, I do believe there is a price for using or trying to weave shield bash into the PLD rotation and that cost is too high, pigeon holing us into an undesirable role.

[Ehayte]

I can tank Ifrit HM while stunning and MT, doesn't make it fun.

But I feel like we should get away from using any terms based out of Economics since many in this community struggle to grasp those concepts.

So yes, I do believe there is a price for using or trying to weave shield bash into the PLD rotation and that cost is too high, pigeon holing us into an undesirable role.

1 - Its not supposed to be, its supposed to be extremely challenging because you are doing two people's job at the same time.
2 - LOL, but give these people some respect - a lot of intelligent discussion happens on these boards that helps me become a better player
3 - I disagree. Shield Bash is an extremely powerful tool, and it should come at an extremely high cost. I think they did a great job balancing the cost - only a very skilled player can successful hold aggro and interrupt important enemy abilities, and even then not 100% of the time.

Also - your complaints regarding not being able to hold aggro over people with gear that is much stronger than yours is...well...it makes no sense. You derisively speak down to other forum members regarding their intelligence, but then you subvert your own point by providing a reasonable explanation for your troubles within the same sentence! Of course you are going to struggle to do your job in a group of players that are vastly better equipped than you. That's not even economics, that is literally X < Y .

[Stryker]

Also - your complaints regarding not being able to hold aggro over people with gear that is much stronger than yours is...well...it makes no sense. You derisively speak down to other forum members regarding their intelligence, but then you subvert your own point by providing a reasonable explanation for your troubles within the same sentence! Of course you are going to struggle to do your job in a group of players that are vastly better equipped than you. That's not even economics, that is literally X < Y .

Well the point about gear was to illustrate the opportunity cost of having to shield bash as your #1 priority over trying to generate enmity. Wasn't a perfect example as you pointed out, but I didn't think it would be looked at under such scrutiny. I guess next time I'll try to make a simple example that's also iron clad....

And we won't bother getting into the literal of X<Y because there are a lot of other variables besides X and Y, but that's just nit picking.

No need to turn this into a pissing contest.

[Ehayte]

snip

Right, but the combination of you not being equally geared with the fact that you are trying to take on two roles in a single encounter is just going to lead to problems. If you create a scenario that you are basing an argument off of, of course I'm going to consider all variables. If you become over-geared, this problem probably goes away, see what I mean?

RE: Pissing contest - I agree, there is no reason to argue that point further.

[Wyndam]

Right, but the combination of you not being equally geared with the fact that you are trying to take on two roles in a single encounter is just going to lead to problems. If you create a scenario that you are basing an argument off of, of course I'm going to consider all variables. If you become over-geared, this problem probably goes away, see what I mean?

RE: Pissing contest - I agree, there is no reason to argue that point further.

I don't know about that. I found using shield bash regularly to be too likely to cause threat problems during the leveling dungeons as well. To the point where I really didn't use it that much and its biggest selling point, the lack of a cooldown, was moot. I was only using it maybe once a pull, giving it an effective cooldown of closer to 90 seconds. I'd rather have the warrior stun, since its only drawback is the cooldown and that would still mean I got more use out of it.

[Onisake]

Why are you bringing war into this. That has nothing to do with it.

Read the entire thread. he brought it up first.

...

so...the only thing I got out of that is that you're mad because you can't solo tank everything because your little combo gets interrupted. you're also mad because you can't keep hate off a DD with a weapon that's 20 to 30 levels above yours.

right...would you like me to braid your hair too princess?