The problem with "Instant OFF GCD" abilities makes combat feel less rewarding.

[Kanzer]

It's hard to believe that people are actually defending this. Even as a staunch supporter of SE and a huge fan of FF, it should be patently obvious to anyone with any sense of logic that the system is not functioning as it should be.

Instant abilities on the whole are designed to be reactive. Prime examples are skills like Benediction, Swiftcast and any interrupt. If they don't take effect immediately they are almost pointless, especially when you factor in short enemy cast times and RNG spike damage for example

I don't think every instant should be off the GCD, but even when they aren't, stopping a cast time spell and then firing off an instant is simply far too unresponsive to be useful most of the time. If a skill like an interrupt is designed to actually trigger after a 1 sec animation, then it should have a 1 sec cast time.

As stated previously, as things are, a lot of the difficulty is simply fighting the interface rather than actual meaningful game difficulty.

Please share with me a specific scenario where it's impossible to interrupt an ability with either an off GCD stun or Silence due to the animation lock. I'd love to hear it. And whatever you come up with (if anything) I can assure you I can give you advice on how to make it work.

Also share an example of RNG spike damage that's impossible to anticipate and results in a death purely because your benediction didn't go off the exact nano-second you pressed it and not because a tank didn't use a cool down or the ball was simply dropped healing wise somewhere.

[KogaDrake]

I'm fairly sure you don't play healing classes.

I dont, I play tank and DPS, but i am very close with my healers and we have discussed how this effects healing many of times, and i summarized our conclusions.

Please share with me a specific scenario where it's impossible to interrupt an ability with either an off GCD stun or Silence due to the animation lock. I'd love to hear it. And whatever you come up with (if anything) I can assure you I can give you advice on how to make it work.

Also share an example of RNG spike damage that's impossible to anticipate and results in a death purely because your benediction didn't go off the exact nano-second you pressed it and not because a tank didn't use a cool down or the ball was simply dropped healing wise somewhere.

^^ this exactly. EVERY fight is scripted, the order of abilities used is FIXES, and thus the healer AND tank know when big moves are coming and need to adjust accordingly. Need to stun, well the cast is long enough for the animation lock as it is factored in when deciding on cast times, and once again, scripted so you know when it is coming, so even if it was too short with animation lock you skip 1 or max 2 gcd to stun/silence (and any fight like this has no enrage timer, so there is no rush).

I think you misunderstood what I was getting at. Every skill performed takes effect after an animation of the skill being performed. That is, the enemy doesn't receive damage from an axe blow until after the axe visually is seen to hit the enemy. I just am not sure I understand why people equate having to wait for the blow to land in the first place before being able to trigger another, with a post-effect cooldown.

Not true, on ADS the second i hit blunt arrow the cast bar for high voltage stops, not stops when the animation is done. just because there is a delay to when you see the number (client side) and when you hit the skill, does not mean there is a delay on the server side. If it worked the way you say it does then there would be many more issues with stuns in game then there are.

[Blimbeard]

Please share with me a specific scenario where it's impossible to interrupt an ability with either an off GCD stun or Silence due to the animation lock. I'd love to hear it. And whatever you come up with (if anything) I can assure you I can give you advice on how to make it work.

Also share an example of RNG spike damage that's impossible to anticipate and results in a death purely because your benediction didn't go off the exact nano-second you pressed it and not because a tank didn't use a cool down or the ball was simply dropped healing wise somewhere.

You're missing the point completely. Instants such as those mentioned are by design reactive emergency abilities. Making it so that success is dependent on predicting scripted encounters through repetition is simply boring and uninspired when compared to being genuinely based on fast reactions during a dangerous moment

If this is intended, It's a very dull design.

[KogaDrake]

You're missing the point completely. Instants such as those mentioned are by design reactive emergency abilities. Making it so that success is dependent on predicting scripted encounters through repetition is simply boring and uninspired when compared to being genuinely based on fast reactions during a dangerous moment

If this is intended, It's a very dull design.

scripted nature makes it easier to not mess up, but the point is that you have enough time (scripted or not scripted fight) to use a skill at the start of these casts and wait for the animation to end and then use your offGCD skill to stun/interrupt. They are still reactive/emergency skills, but you cant spam them making it more realistic.

If they made a change so instant offGCD skills fire off the second they are hit (i.e., no animation lock) then they would need to rebalanced every encounter that requires these skills to be used which means less reaction time and harder hitting boss moves since you can now double heal. This would be ok with the hardcore raiders who are more skilled, better isp, better computer and likely faster twitch reactions, but would hurt most of the game population, so don't expect to see it done (plus the sheer amount of rebalancing of content to ensure its not too easy now would itself be too much work at this stage)

[Kanzer]

You're missing the point completely. Instants such as those mentioned are by design reactive emergency abilities. Making it so that success is dependent on predicting scripted encounters through repetition is simply boring and uninspired when compared to being genuinely based on fast reactions during a dangerous moment

If this is intended, It's a very dull design.

Or maybe you're missing the point, since a SE rep has even posted in this very thread telling you that your perception of how these abilities should work is INCORRECT and does not fall in line with their design.

The problem is you're just too hard headed to accept that and want it to work exactly how you want it to, instead of simply adjusting to it and bettering yourself to handle these situations that are giving you trouble.

The problem lies with you, not with the design of the game.

Edit: Also, still waiting for those specific examples mentioned in the above post. Stop dodging and actually back up your claims.

[Blimbeard]

Or maybe you're missing the point, since a SE rep has even posted in this very thread telling you that your perception of how these abilities should work is INCORRECT and does not fall in line with their design.

The problem is you're just too hard headed to accept that and want it to work exactly how you want it to, instead of simply adjusting to it and bettering yourself to handle these situations that are giving you trouble.

The problem lies with you, not with the design of the game.

Sorry but that's just nonsense. It's completely counterintuitive. Say a boss ability has a 2 second cast, you're saying is that it's actually supposed to be a .75 second cast time.

If visual cues like cast timers and aoe indicators are not actually accurate, then why even include them? You can't be seriously suggesting that encounter mechanics are actually designed to be tuned towards integrating substandard reponsiveness,and that this is an acceptable approach?

[Kanzer]

Sorry but that's just nonsense. It's completely counterintuitive. Say a boss ability has a 2 second cast, you're saying is that it's actually supposed to be a .75 second cast time.

If visual cues like cast timers and aoe indicators are not actually accurate, then why even include them? You can't be seriously suggesting that encounter mechanics are actually designed to be tuned towards integrating substandard reponsiveness,and that this is an acceptable approach?

I'm saying nothing of the sort. If a boss has a 2 second cast, then it's a 2 second cast, you have 2 seconds to interrupt it. And if you know it needs to be interrupted, and that locking yourself into an animation is going to possibly make you unable to get your ability off in time, then you wait for the ability, interrupt, then resume your rotation. You see? It's all part of that forming a strategy thing that the SE rep talked about earlier in this thread.

If you think about it, this system makes the most sense of all of them. Why should you be able to bash something with your shield while you're in the middle of swinging your sword down as hard as you can on it's head? It's a matter of doing what's necessary for your situation. If something needs to be interrupted or you die, then that becomes the priority, not your rotation. And if for some reason you can't stop your rotation (for example: Building threat) Then someone else handles that particular one. ADS for example, if you have two Paladin's then the offtank Paladin can interrupt and make sure not to lock themselves in an animation. Then when the offtank becomes the main tank, the other taunts since they no longer have to immediately worry about building threat.

System is fine, it's not bad design, it's just not WoW.

Oh, oh! Let me guess what that advice is. "You need to initiate the stun immediately when the mob uses their ability, so your animation will finish in time to actually stun it. In order to make sure you can react early enough, just auto attack behind the mob until it's time to stun." ISN'T THAT FUN!

If that's how you choose to ensure you get the job done, then by all means go for it. But anyone capable of paying attention knows generally when the ability is coming up and can throw in some DPS while waiting for it. Read above for my advice.

Have you been keeping up with the Titan thread?

This game could have some of the best combat systems in the genre. It really could. At the moment it's held back by server unresponsiveness and developers being firm on their position.

Yep, and I've done titan plenty, consistently even. I personally wouldn't have an issue with them reducing the .3 second location check to .1 or lower. I think it'd improve things, but that's completely irrelevant to this discussion.

[Blimbeard]

Also, still waiting for those specific examples mentioned in the above post. Stop dodging and actually back up your claims.

I'd have hoped you would have been able to see the wider context of the problem, but I guess not. Here's an example

There are many movement intensive fights. I'm not at endgame yet but an example that springs to mind is the second boss in DD. In this fight a healer often has to interrupt their own casts to move out of the AOE's. The key here should be my reactions, not wondering:

1. Is the game going to actually correctly calculate that I'm out of the AOE ?
2. Will the spell I tried to cancel by moving actually cancel in time to start the next cast ?
3. Will the swiftcast i do afterwards actually trigger in time ?

I shouldn't have to wonder these things, they should just work, like they do in every other MMO I've played. That's what makes combat fun, not wondering whether borked mechanics are going to kill the tank.

[Kanzer]

I'd have hoped you would have been able to see the wider context of the problem, but I guess not. Here's an example

There are many movement intensive fights. I'm not at endgame yet but an example that springs to mind is the second boss in DD. In this fight a healer often has to interrupt their own casts to move out of the AOE's. The key here should be my reactions, not wondering:

1. Is the game going to actually correctly calculate that I'm out of the AOE ?
2. Will the spell I tried to cancel by moving actually cancel in time to start the next cast ?
3. Will the swiftcast i do afterwards actually trigger in time ?

I shouldn't have to wonder these things, they should just work, like they do in every other MMO I've played. That's what makes combat fun, not wondering whether borked mechanics are going to kill the tank.

Point 1: has nothing to do with this discussion. I'd like them to reduce the .3 second location check to .1, that'd be great.

Point 2: If you move before the cast is up, it's going to cancel, there's no 'if' about it. The game even allows you to 'queue' the ability if you start pressing within a certain time. Play with it to figure it out.

Point 3: If you know you're going to need swift cast when you get out of the AoE, why not pop it while you're moving? That way you guarantee it's up when you need it. No need to worry.

[Raymeo]

Please share with me a specific scenario where it's impossible to interrupt an ability with either an off GCD stun or Silence due to the animation lock. I'd love to hear it. And whatever you come up with (if anything) I can assure you I can give you advice on how to make it work.

Oh, oh! Let me guess what that advice is. "You need to initiate the stun immediately when the mob uses their ability, so your animation will finish in time to actually stun it. In order to make sure you can react early enough, just auto attack behind the mob until it's time to stun." ISN'T THAT FUN!

If you think about it, this system makes the most sense of all of them. Why should you be able to bash something with your shield while you're in the middle of swinging your sword down as hard as you can on it's head?

Really? I am frickin' holding them in two different hands. That's why.