Any research into WAR DEX?

[CianaIezuborn]

Some definitions to be used in the following:

Mitigation: Guaranteed reduction to incoming damage. In FF14, this is Def/MDef/Resists and shield oath. Cooldowns can be included as temporary mitigation, but in gearing we're generally concerned with static mitigation.

Avoidance: Non guaranteed reduction to incoming damage. Block, dodge, parry all fit this bill and by extension strength and dexterity.

EHp: Effective HP, this is your WORST case scenario hp. If you had a die that always rolled 0's, this is your HP. It's equivalent to your HP * (1/(1-Mitigation(as decimal))).

AHp: EHP * (1/(1-AverageAvoidanceReduction(as decimal))). This is your average HP total. This number is bollocks and generally useless as a metric.

Alright so to start off, as a general rule of thumb:

Mitigation > Hp > Avoidance - You've heard this before, and it's true. 95% of the people wanting to tank in any game should just look at this, accept it, and move on.

There are two ways a tank can die, from burst damage or from attrition. Attrition is what takes place when average incoming damage is greater than the average incoming healing. This is generally an indicator of a severely undergeared tank, severely undergeared healers, or a mismatch in party set up and/or mechanics(not enough healers, 1 tank tanking a two tank encounter, not responding to a mechanic.).

Mitigation and Avoidance survive Attrition, HP does not factor in(well, beyond the innate regen boost you gain from hp pools)

Burst damage is exactly what it sounds like, it's a burst of high damage attacks that when combined together one shot or nearly one shot a tank before the healers can react. It's characterized from a tank going from 100% to dead in less than 2 or 3 GCDs. There is nothing that can be done from either the tank or healers perspective beyond the possibility of blowing a cooldown. When preparing for burst damage, you have to prepare for the worst case scenario. The worst case scenario is, by definition, when you did NOT avoid any of the damage in the burst damage combo.

Mitigation and HP(see Ehp) survive Burst, Avoidance does not factor in

What Avoidance DOES do in relation to burst damage is reduces the chances that it will happen, which in turn gives your raid less chances to fail. However if your EHP is not sufficient to survive the Burst damage, then it doesn't matter if you reduce the chances of it happening by half. When it happens, your face is going to plant into the ground and your raid is going to wipe.

TLDR:

The only thing that kills tanks in a raid group that is properly formed and properly performing mechanics is burst damage. Burst damage must be calculated at it's worst case scenario, which by definition denies any avoidance. Therefore if you're dieing to burst damage (such as Mountain Buster + 2 AAs) the only method to counter it to reach a 100% chance of survival is more mitigation or more HP. Avoidance will make the truck hits less likely, but only EHP will ensure you survive them when they happen.

[CurlyBruce]

If SE had intended WAR to be a parry tank in the way that PLD has shield blocks (they also have parry which can activate independently of shield block) they would have kept Foresight as a parry buff like it was in 1.0 or allowed us to sub Keen Flurry from LNC.

[Conna]

Problem with trying to stat for parry doesn't take into account that special attacks can't be parried, and you're basically screwed whenever you don't parry. Basically vit is guaranteed mitigation so to speak dex is rng mitigation.

[Derza]

NICE FIND!

Pretty good read even though it's from P3 but assuming this data is correct and STR and parry reduction is a 40-41-40 threshold I'm seriously leaning towards DEX>STR>VIT for a War build.

The bit that REALLY caught my eye was ". Just by increasing Parry by 81 points, Hulan added about 6.1% to his parry rate."

The extra 550 hp from VIT stacking can easily be countered if your parry rate hits high enough.

Perhaps,
PLD = STR>VIT>DEX, (Block percentage and hate building attack power > HP Buffer vs. Magic damage > Block and parry rate)
WAR = DEX>STR>VIT (Parry rate > Damage output for hate abilities AND Parry mitigation > HP buffer vs. Magic Damage already boosting natural HP buffers from Defiance)


Note: This is all theory bashing anyone reading this. Feel free to jump in and discuss why 550 HP from stacking VIT is better than foccussing on Parry rate and Mitigation

raising parry rate by 6% is not much when you consider when you do parry it is only a 20-25% damage reduction... not 100% so getting 6% more parry rate is about 1-1.1% overall damage reduction FOR PHYSICAL DAMAGE ONLY. I hardly find stacking 81 points in dex even remotely worth that.

[C-croft]

raising parry rate by 6% is not much when you consider when you do parry it is only a 20-25% damage reduction... not 100% so getting 6% more parry rate is about 1-1.1% overall damage reduction FOR PHYSICAL DAMAGE ONLY. I hardly find stacking 81 points in dex even remotely worth that.

Where did you get these numbers? Genuine question.

[Hachiko]

TLDR:

The only thing that kills tanks in a raid group that is properly formed and properly performing mechanics is burst damage. Burst damage must be calculated at it's worst case scenario, which by definition denies any avoidance. Therefore if you're dieing to burst damage (such as Mountain Buster + 2 AAs) the only method to counter it to reach a 100% chance of survival is more mitigation or more HP. Avoidance will make the truck hits less likely, but only EHP will ensure you survive them when they happen.

I kind of disagree but I agree with the spirit of your post in its entirety. There are situations where sustained damage can kill a tank, if the damage being sustained is more than the healers can maintain in the same amount of time. Cad is a good example of this. There is some burst involved, but it's mostly just a steady stream of damage that will kill you because a healer has a hard time pumping out that much solo.

Where did you get these numbers? Genuine question.

When you play, and you parry, it will say something like "1036 (22% parried)."

Parry rate and str for the purposes of parry are woefully underwhelming in terms of an overall durability measurement.

[Derza]

Where did you get these numbers? Genuine question.

Well the numbers are correct although i thought he said 81 points in dex not parry...you wouldn't get 6% parry chance from 81 dex it would be 2%, the thresholds are right around every 40 dex = 1% parry chance. As for the other numbers the damage reduction for when you parry is based off of your str and those values are, if i remember correctly 281 = 22%, 318 = 23%, 363 = 24% 405 = 25% (i think the 281 and 318 might be off by a few points) So if you raised your parry chance by 6% the overall damage reduction would be 6% of your mitigation when you parry (or 6% of 22-25%)... I just guessed when i said 1-1.1% ... the actual value ends up being 1.32-1.5% physical damage reduction for 6% parry chance (using 22-25%) but the thresholds for dex are also ~40 points per 1% parry chance... so you would need at the least 41 ish dex to get 2% parry and at the most 80 dex to get 2% parry (depending on how close you are to the threshold from the start) so say you use 41 dex and get the 2%... 2% of 22%-25% is only a .44%-.5% physical damage reduction no reduction in damage vs magic ( More likely it will be about 20 dex to hit the next threshold of 1% more parry chance... so 20 dex for ~.22-.25% Physical damage reduction).

[Derza]

Problem with trying to stat for parry doesn't take into account that special attacks can't be parried, and you're basically screwed whenever you don't parry. Basically vit is guaranteed mitigation so to speak dex is rng mitigation.

Vitality is not a form of mitigation... it in no ways reduces the amount of damage you take (or reduce the amount of healing you need)... It just lets you take more damage before you die if you have no heals - that is not the same thing.

[C-croft]

the thresholds are right around every 40 dex = 1% parry chance.

Sorry, wasn't clear enough, but I was referring to this data here. I found a chart but it relates to PLD. Not that I am expecting different for WAR, just curious. I understood what you were saying, but was wondering if the data has been researched. Since the OP is planning on using 10k seals to study, we could save him time and effort.

EDIT: 20k seals will be spent. Ten for research and ten to respec.

[Remn]

Well, unless you can parry special attack or magic base atk, I just couldn't see how parry can be better than stack VIT.